just want to state for the record all my comments on this issue are in relation to crossgrade prices. i have no real opinion worth making a point of stating regarding the prices as they are for reason users who would be newcomers to the plugs in question.

i also own licenses for all the sonic charge plugins which feature in at least 70% of my projects
i own licenses for all the valhalladsp plugins which feature in maybe 50%
and of course the u-he stuff which is about on par with the sonic charge stuff
i own some audio damage licenses too

i mention those devs because they feature in this thread, but of course im a patron of the other RE devs on board.

reason would be on my radar as a sound design tool because i like the CV paradigm they employ but as i stated at the beginning its quickly off my radar again with the obscene prices {see;;no crossgrade pricing}

thats my interest in this topic, plus the fact i think it can change if only the desire is really there to change it. people who already own reason are in a better position to apply pressure though, as they are already part of that captive market.

im disappointed magnus joined this thread just to say he wasnt reading it and only to comment on how much time he spent porting bitspeak {though he never stated if he spent that time focused entirely on the port or if it just took that amount of time along with doing other work}, despite what was said or implied in the propheads promo video. i have no idea how he finds a needle in a hay stack like that without reading the thread, unless maybe someone pm'd him about it ? either way a poor effort when there are more worthy points to address

im disappointed that in response to the arguments being made in this thread in determined favor of crossgrade prices and possible courses of action a dev could take, all that seems to be met is how much time it takes to port existing code to RE. that is pretty much incidental to this whole thing. a big part of the RE blurb is that in the long run the development overhead is vastly reduced. so what if you spend a solid month on porting it, unless you're telling us that the propheads are also lying about the reduction in development overheads in the long run what difference does that make ? how does it add any weight to the idea that crossgrades aren't feasible ? plus all the selective quotes that sean@valhalladsp reposts are patently pushing the idea that we should just suck it up

the important arguments that have been made, imo, are that devs could try to work around propheads making it hard to offer crossgrade options or collectively refuse to support the format unless they are allowed to honor their existing licensees with crossgrade prices or discount vouchers. that imo is where the buck lands firmly in the hands of the devs. RE is a platform entirely dependent on their input. the idea that they have no influence on this decision just seems insulting to my intelligence

i give credit to Urs, at least he appears contrite about the whole thing

This is about the exact opposite of the idea that I am trying to convey. My quotes were chosen to point out that several developers were told that there would be crossgrades, or were pushing for crossgrades, only to find that there were not going to be any crossgrades.



Without Propellerhead sharing any customer info with developers, or without Propellerhead accepting vouchers from developers, this won't happen.



This is where I have landed. I'm not signed up to be a RE developer, and made my thoughts on the subject public back in late March. I won't rehash the details here - there are about 20 forum pages on the Propellerhead forum responding to the opinions I expressed on KVR.

Sean Costello

I'ma gonna side with ya on this

thank you Sean for clarifying your position on this
i hope i didnt cause offense by misconstruing your intentions re: the quotes you reposted

Glad to hear!



I'm sorry to disappoint you. I have now at at least skimmed this thread and I hear what you feel about crossgrades, but I am not sure what I can add that hasn't been said. I *love* the philosophies behind the RE format (although I am biased). We will make more of them just as we will make more VSTs.

There is still room for improvement in the implementation of course. Propellerheads had to cut a *lot* of corners to make the deadline. I think they made a great job prioritizing, but we could easily make a wish list of some 10, 20 things we'd like to see happen soon. Being able to create discount vouchers is one of those things (or even give away free copies to begin with). I for one have never heard any promises about a discount system from day 1. However, I am quite positive that we'll find a solution sooner or later.



Google Alerts.

hmmm interesting!
Urs said, unless im mistaken, that initially he was told voucher system was going to be in place and when he discovered it wasnt he prioritized putting his resources into other work during that time {a DIVA update i think}
i wonder why theyd tell him a voucher system would be there and not you ?
weird!

so malström
what about the devs collectively insisting that the propheads facilitate crossgrade pricing somehow, or at the very very very very very least inform you developers who is buying your multi-format plugs {vst/au/RE, ie bitspeak} so that you could handle some kind of credit/discount/whatever on your end ?

i mean are we really meant to accept that you guys have no influence in this situation ? i find it hard to believe



4-ha!
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I think people are jumping the gun on this. I agree with most of the concerns, but Re has only just been launched and it sounds like they rushed to hit a deadline. Staff from Propellerhead have hinted things can change and possibilities will evolve.

I agree that since Reason itself can be resold, so should the Re plugins, if not individually, at least along with a sale of Reason transferring all the products in your account. Having said that I factor in all the pros and cons when I buy and I can except no transfer allowed, dongles or challenge response if the price is right.

Yes, and that is also why it's important that people that are against the "no re-selling policy" and the "no crossgrades" policy are making their voices heard so that props can re-evaluate their stance. :)

This.

Seeing as RE's can go into Reason, what about pulling parts of Reason out and selling them as VST's ? Of course i'm hinting at the synth with the same name as yours here I'd love to see Malstrom as a VST, and the Scream4 Distortion.

Just a thought. Maybe PH should cash in on that. I know i'd buy them.

G00g13 kn0\/\/5 133t: https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=xx-hacker

That synth made me look for an old version of Reason, just for that synth. Then Thor and audio sampling caught my eye, and the upgrade price was reasonable.

But, I don't see Propellerhead ever releasing Reason devices as vst plugins. Outside of a few select devices and cv, what does Reason have going for it as a host?

Simple answer: It was among the first questions I had when Propellerhead presented RE to us in October 2011. Back then I felt assured that we'll have a crossgrade option right there. It was during meetings at Musikmesse in March I think when I first heard of a delay, and it was May when I learned that they probably won't happen.

On a positive note, the redesign for Uhbiks is on a good way, and Clemens is onto our technical difficulties. We might be able to start beta testing Uhbik REs in two weeks or so. If all goes well.

Urs

That would actually be more interesting, but I don't think it will ever happen.
I use Reason a *lot* for ReDrum, Kong and the ability to route each drum sound through different effects chains with automation etc. I do this despite the fact that ReWire is kind of clunky to work with, simply because the effects and flexibility is great, and the instruments are very user friendly. But the more of my effects and instruments I can use outside the Reason "box", the better, IMO. It's fairly easy to take one particular output in Reason and route it through VST effects - but it's impossible to take any of my VST plug-ins and route them through Reason's effects.

can someone explain the latency problem to me. this is the one thing that is freaking me out and i have read it a few times recently... something about various sound cards too...but no actual explanation what it is.

this might be a show stopper for me.. but i am not sure what is being talked about....

please.. thanks very much in advance.