How do i get wider sounding mixes?

I read a lot about panning and certain plugins which sort of make things sound wider.

I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on these things?

Thanks

Hi

You have your 3D sound stage - left to right / back to front ( and also low frequency to high frequency).

I would say that panning does not give a wider mix per se, so much as providing movement left-right-left-right etc for sound sources across the existing soundstage.

With wider sounding mixes - and indeed mixes that seem to extend beyond your monitors themselves - there are a variety of tricks and cunning stunts.

SoundOnSound does a quicker and more articulate job than me in describing some of these tricks, so here for your viewing pleasure is...
http://www.soundonsound.com/search?Keyword=stereo+widening

Is it even necessary to pan ?

Cause surely then you would have things coming more out of one speaker....:S

and thanks for the articles but they were rather complex for someone of my limited knowledge on this area haha.

All i really want to know is...

What things should i be panning and how much, as i know the kick and bass are always mono and dead center, then i just know that sometimes people pan stuff to make more room etc?

I also read last night a lot on mono compatibility which completely ruined me sooo lost with that one..?

What things should i be looking to make wider in the mix as well cause when you listen to tracks like from people like

Hardwell
Nicky Romero
Alesso

and all the big guys they all have full sounding wide tracks? how could i get my tracks a little wider in this respect?


If anyone at all could shed some light on this is would be great thanks !

If you don't pan anything, you get mono. A lot of listeners essentially listen in mono, but stereo potentially gives a richer listening experience, a feeling of a bigger and more dynamic sound.

Experiment with:

Panning the same part panned left and right (not necessarily 100%), but effected or delayed on one side.

Spreading drum kits and percussion across the stereo field.

"Question/answer" parts (for instance vocals) panned left and right.

Transition sounds (zooms, reversed cymbals etc) moving across the stereo field.

Sorry Sunderlad - I misinterpreted your first post as trying to ask about advanced stereo widening tips and auto-panning, but really it is a question just about panning.

Firstly, please note that the bass and kick can be panned away from the centre (either as mono or stereo sources), and this is sometimes done as a 'spot effect' during the course of a song. However, there are sensible reasons for keeping both in the centre, especially in the dance / club music genre. (Equally, keeping both centre is a throwback to vinyl days, but nowadays we have many more options regarding the delivery media of our music).

Please also note that whilst there are traditional and 'common sense' reasons for how people usually pan instruments, the choice is entirely yours when it comes to how you want to present your sound. If you want a mega-wide bass sound (or one panned in mono to the middle-left of the soundstage) then that's cool - so long as it sounds good in the context of your song.

In addition to Skipscada's fine suggestions, I would suggest keeping the most important elements of your song fairly towards the centre, panning subsequent or less important instruments to progressively wider zones as they are brought into the song, and keeping the wider far 'wings' for effects or the lesser percussive instruments.

Additionally, you might want to also try panning instruments around the sound stage with regards to a traditional orchestral set-up, particularly if you're making classical music:
http://library.thinkquest.org/22673/orchestra.html

As myself and Skipscada have suggested, maybe move some of the sounds around the soundstage - this avoids them getting too static.

Finally, aside from soundstage and panning issues, one of the other reasons why your mentioned artists have such full-sounding but clear mixes is because their chosen instruments (should) occupy all of the different octave ranges of the sound frequency spectrum, and care is taken to avoid too many frequency clashes between the instruments.

Using some of these tips by Skipscada and myself will help you to create wider and fuller sounding mixes.

ps, mono compatibility refers to how your song sounds once it is transferred from a stereo mix into a mono one. Sometimes stereo effects on instruments, particularly bass instruments, can cause notes to be reduced in volume or lost altogether if these stereo effects have caused 'phasing' problems.
One of the best, and free, effects to check your mixes for mono compatibility is this (Gonio 3):
http://www.kvraudio.com/product/gonio_by_ukm

Someone should mention using a stereo widener. Which I just did. Sure, they have to be used with caution, but widening above a certain frequency works pretty well pretty often. Just make sure to check back the next day or so to see if you still like it or if it's too much...

+1 on flux stereo tool - i cannot believe its free - i use it on every track such an amazing and simple piece of kit!

Remember the higher the frequency content the more you can pan - of course - you can be creative, but i tend to start off by this rule then get to the creative-ness when everything has its place to that rule

Hope this helps a little

Mike

This is where Ozone's mid-field tools are pretty cool for final mastering.

Thanks for all the replies, they have really helped