Fantastic post. I love the bold part BTW, this is spot on. I will say that Ableton compares a bit more favorably than perhaps Logic, (I don't know, I only used Logic briefly years ago), and certainly Cubase, whose attempts to be "hip" strike me as particularly quaint.

I wanna go through the posts tomorrow and and then write a reply, but for now, I love it when you say a sea of third-rate Jean Michael Jarre impersonations. This is spot on. But too much to talk about here, to for tomorrow...

Logic at App store $149. Ableton Live $449.

Right, no doubt if you are talking bang for buck, logic is a bargain. A lot of producers swear by it and even really like its built in synths. I think that MFL moves live into awesomeville, so add another $249 or whatever MFL costs these days.

So, if you are talking pure bang for buck, IMHO, it's a copy of Reaper and a copy of CM magazine.

That is of course the number one reason for choosing a tool. You should use the tool that makes you the most productive and/or gives you the most fun. I'd rather spend twice the money on something I love to use/do than using something that feels like a drag to work with.
But for the question is reason the perfect option financially, my answer would be no. It is an expensive option no matter if you value it above all other software.



Well designed so there's no need to read the manual, but you need to delve deeper into the environment if you want to create sounds like the included combs or mimic other plugins. That would require reading the manuals wouldn't it?

Edit: Btw, I totally agree on Ultrabeat. Never used it except for the first few tryouts.. totally unlogical device.
EXS24 I find just as easy as NNXT though.


Tbh, many of the effects in Reason aren't that great. So I think it's the environment and workflow that is worth the money for people and not the included devices. I do acknowledge many of them was made a decade ago though, but that's what you've had to work with until now. RE fills that gap and that's why I've been more interested in Essential than the full version. If only it had Blocks which I think is a really (!) great workflow idea.

Isn't that because Logic doesn't get developed anymore, and it used to cost way more?

But then you have to have an overpriced underpowered MAC to run Logic, so Live on a PC is still cheaper

Compairing 'list' prices of software is a bit off-the-mark. Logic is cheap, but many people get Live, Cubase etc. on the upgrade train (from a free lite licence) or in the sale (severl times a year 1/3 off, so $299 USD.

But yes, if you just want 'value' (rather than the right tool for you based on years of trying everything and often going back to stuff you have given up on!) then Reaper + all the great free stuff is still a very porffesional set up with more great sounds than any one will use in a life time (all the free NI players, Alchemy player, Brazille, Zebralette and all the great CM free instruments to name but a few)

... but professional studios use Logic

Am I the only one who thinks Ableton is really overpriced?
Sonar, FL and Reaper I look at and their prices are agreeable.

Well, back on the topic (somewhat) Logic is no-brainer for mac users. I used to love the Logic synths, but now I've forgotten what they sound like.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I maintain that the best financial option is almost always Sonar. I think many are too quick to jump on Reason just because that's 'all they will need to spend.'

It's around the same price as Reason 6.5, although street prices for both do fluctuate, so worth looking around.

Software prices are ultimately hard to judge, but both Ableton and Reason seem to sit in the middle - in a crude feature-per-dollar analysis they cost:

+ more than Reaper or Logic, which hence look like bargains
+ similar to Sonar, which is generally considered a fairly good deal (but seems to have a reputation for being prone to bugs)
+ but cheaper than Pro Tools and Cubase, which seem over-priced.

As others have said, it's more important to buy what best suits you as a musician, and that's why I have bought Reason and Live and stuck with them over so many years (in both cases, more than a decade now).

Yes, Ableton is overpriced, and every single update was at least 99€. Let alone live-instruments. But, at least, it runs both on mac and pc, has no dongle and the license lets you play it on two different machines. Reaper is still cheap for "common people", but if you are a pro you have to pay 225$, so not so cheap, considering it is not cubase, logic or protools.

Logic is only for mac, but at the same time the Sonar option is only for PC.

Regarding Reason: that is neither a DAW, nor a vst (like for instance Reaktor), that is why for what it offers it should cost half the price.

Everything is priced what the market will bear. If it isn't, then the seller changes the price. If the prices aren't changing, then the sellers feel they are getting a good deal and the buyers feel like they are getting a good deal. It's not complicated, its been this way since people started selling things.

Individuals that think its too high or to low either buy it or don't, but its the "collective" wallet that decides the price.

"dirty capxxxxxxts" ?

The use of "hip" here I find "quaint" . If using other people's media - vis a vis relying on 'Media Bay' extensively, which seemed buggy and to introduce instability in earlier versions - is 'hip', I'm good with being an old fogey. If through-composing vs relying on patterns is 'square', so be it. I can see what's hip about virtual cables and a virtual rack to someone; but it wasn't that exciting for me, having had a lot of that IRL, it seems 'quaint', another subjective word.

But I don't object to Steinberg keeping up somewhat with *Feature Requests* and keeping up with the market, clearly competing somewhat with Ableton with the Arranger Track or whatever it's called. Some call it 'bloat'.

*what is hip* UNNNH.

I hate that 'hip' nonsense.

One day I tried to use Live 'properly' by actually mapping out scenes and so on. And I realised I basically recorded each track onto single scene and spend the rest in the arranger window.

FL was far more tolerable. I regret not spending more time with it, while my Cubase Artist doesn't batch export, refuses to give me license to route signals freely (who would have thought by going to digital we would be prohibited routing such way?)

There are far more important things for Steinberg. Getting that VST bridge sorted out would be a start. I feel as if we are all marching towards... Dubturbo. They could be out making things more intuitive, getting better UI, improving workflow ... Don't get me wrong, new technology is good, but I hate it when developers get their hands on it just to look cool.