The Workbench is really cool - it's like a custom guitar shop where you can select pretty much everything, even add things like a dobro resonator. You can also retune the guitar to alternate tunings as well as create string doubling for 12 strings and similar types.

somebodies didn't read my post.

Who, me?

I wasn't disagreeing with anything you wrote. If anything, I was doing the opposite.

Strange.
With the right effects, I can make my guitar sound like a DX7.

I would like to see if some people could tell the difference in an audio sample test. I played guitar for many years, and in a mix, I'm being honest when I say I can't tell the difference on a lot of tracks.
Guess it depends on what's being played though.
A chord stab, or a note bend. Distortion and effects...etc.

I think the difference is in the hardware, and not the sound, as guitars can sound like synths when using some effects, and you only know, from the playability done with the hardware, but not the tone, timbre...just the note bending, and fret noises and similar.

Although there's always the guitar elite, who will say they can tell.
I'm not one of them. I guess cuz I don't care how close it sounds, but rather the illusion of it's presence in the context of a mix.

a whoaaaa nelly moment here..

wind controllers are not discontinued and are not only 1000 dollar instruments.

i use the yamaha wx5, i like its reed based pitch bend control and of course yamaha has the patent on it.

theres also the akai ewi usb

both are in the b&h print catalog, wx5 is around 600 bucks and the ewi usb is around 300.

this is an old video of my old setup, ive since switched to reaper:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T29uWWjmCI

im just beginning to start to plan a new video for the reaper setup.

I'm not saying you can't create something usable with a guitar "sound" and a keyboard. I am saying that there are certain idiosyncrasies in playing a real guitar that cannot be emulated by randomizers and keybed performance.

I love playing wind/brass sounds on my ztar (maybe I should invest in a breath controller for it) and trying to manipulate the timbre by various cc controls. I can mimic some performances rather well but I know that the audio representation is less then realistic even if others find it sufficiently pleasing enough.

I've been playing guitar for...35+ years now. And while I'm very satisfied with my ztars as midi controllers (more so then everything that has come before or after them) And yet the last thing I want to do is play a guitar sound thru my ztar while there are plenty of guitars around me.

Regarding wx5 and ewi, I've seen the vid before Tony and I was impressed back then as I am now.


I'm beside myself with the state of midi and the computer environment itself. On one hand I'm a staunch supporter of midi and all my midi sounds come from my computer. Partially because I can't afford a PC3k or a top of the line eignharp. But I do also recognize that if you want to take expression to the next level you can no longer use standard midi as a means of transmission or recording.
http://www.eigenlabs.com/feature/news/cubase-and-eigenharps/

The Eigenlabs Pico would be one of the coolest instruments to play and use modelled instruments with (and it comes with a few), but unfortunately, Eigenlabs themselves are making it nearly impossible to like their creations due to their assenine sales model - pay a monthly subscription fee to be able to use the drivers and software that is proprietary to the instrument.

Not only does this mean that no one else can create software for it, but they are the FIRST company in the history of computers to make you pay separately for the freakin DRIVERS!!!! Plus, you are paying for the software to run the damn thing, without which the Pico becomes a paperweight.

Nice job Eigenlabs.

Mike

kvaca, its not a noise gate issue.The release is fine, when using the internal
distortion.the internal distortion is not as good as the amp sim distortion.

Why are you sure that internal distortion doesnt use hidden noise gate or something similar?
In many realworld hi-gain amps /my Peavey combo uses Hush/ its built in and you dont know about it,even cannot swich it off...you only can hear its effect /silence/

I'm currently considering additional ways for improve it :)



Yes, in facts I think Physical Modeling is more a white-box model based than a black, since components at first are studied for 10's years to be understood and described (eg: a string oscillation and the upper harmonic generation; an excitation of it;...), then a mathematical/physics equivalent is made for each part of the simulation. Research is constantly growing (eg: there's not yet a *published* final model made for the bowing string excitation process).

About "wich of the following can be detected/differentiated by a midi guitar":

Let's say at first that it is not my job :) to make MIDI Guitar controllers, so there're more expert people / hardware engineers that would make it better than me. I can say that IronAxe is already capable to accept any kind of controlling option (including future/more sophisticated Guitar controllers). A Guitar controller with enough sensors can send controls to simulate everything, from string excitation to tapping harmonics, from palm muting to smashing your virtual burning guitar through the amplifier/cabinet. Imagine what *JUST* a low cost RFID chip applied to a plectrum and a RFID reader in the 'MIDI Guitar controller' body that can calculate its proximity can do: it would be a very cheap and cost-effective way to hardware simulate/recognize (and send to the software) plectrum hardness/type, picking point, (even its detected absence would send to the software the 'finger excitation' message)... IronAxe is ready for new/future hardware, infinite are the possibilities, immagination is the only requirement :)...

The argument I was getting at is that there's a continuum between purely black-box and white-box models and, as such, there's no point along that continuum at which the realm of physical modelling begins ('more white-box based than black' is kind of meaningless - there's no measurable halfway point between the two).

Afaic, any attempt to replicate the input-output behaviour of a physical system is physical modelling and, with varying degrees of success, pretty much any synthesizer can be employed for that purpose.

That would be a heck of a guitar midi controller. No an RIDF chip as a pick would not save the day. It would be an interesting concept.

For sheer expressive capabilities the BabyZ stands alone.


(yep that's me)

Strings are the bane of midi guitar controllers. Be it yourock, Yamaha ez's or even ztars. More recent (2008 and thereafter) ztars fair better then the rest but still it's actually not a good idea compared to "trigger bars" sure you can't use a pick or strum however there are ways to pseudo strum I did a video on it. Trigger bars are touch sensitive. they are the longer looking "nurbs" It would be a nice feature if they were also touch strips so that the location of your finger could be used to exert a different cc value. The 8 encoder pots are easy to manage with your thumb while tapping on the trigger bars. Trigger bars already can do much more then relay note on and velocity. You can assign up to 8 events to a single trigger bar. The expression pads can also be assigned up to 8 events as well serve as trigger bars. Same goes for every sensor on the unit. (touch strip/pots) Had I'd been smarter I'd have saved for an add on whammy bar or joystick.
It's actually much more versatile and tactile then a kitara.

The neck is also pressure sensitive. So you can set it up to tap although in honesty I prefer buttons on my z6. I also prefer the range on the z6 (24 frets as opposed to 16 with the baby)
There are other add ons available such as a neck strip. Harvey Starr is developing a small scale xy surface like a laptop touchpad.

So yes the technology is out there for an extremely versatile midi controller it will only cost a small fortune.

Speaking of IronAxe and ztar....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDxRtsZStYE

Granted when one is trying to play three instruments at once (lead, rhythm, bass) Some of the expressive capabilities have to be sacrificed.

Sure, what I made was only a 'concept controller feature' that comes in my mind in 1 second to make just an example of 'plectrum detection controller'. I'm not expecting someone would make this kind of controller, though is remains a good and very cheap way to make it. Very nice also the Ztar, though it is something beyond than a guitar controller. Jeff Moen in that video used it with IronAxe in 'MIDI Keyboard' mode. So I think Ztar is not the best choise for a 'pure' guitar replacement, for the lack of 'strings' (but maybe other Ztar models have 'strings'...). But in my opinions controllers like Ztar, even if not identical to actual guitars, could represent an innovation of that interfacing. After all, nobody said that Guitar control interfacing can't be improved (mantaining its basic structure).

Jeff's hands were doing too much playing three instruments at once. If he limited It to playing one instrument he could display the expressive power of the instrument. He's got key triggers as well.

Seriously strings are bad. key triggers are better

It actually takes very little to prove that too - pick something full of idosyncrasies and get a guitarist and a keyboard player to play them back.

Same with many other instruments too. It's not just the difficulty in sampling accurately, but the actual playing too.