... you know guys, i'm really starting to like my Muse Receptor SOOOOOOO much. it just solves so many problems for me and fits so well into my workflow. i've been waiting for a product like this for a long time ...

edited for 'meh' factor ...
Last edited by normal on Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

???

Do we speak the same language still? Where is the hint to the "racist" suspicion?



Seriously, don't make a fool out of yourself by using that word when there is not the slightest link to what has been said.

The PMs are much worse than the threads. One person in particular reacts at perceived (only!) critique from other devs with accusations of supremacism and e.g. "Should you post another/several ones like this in an official XXXX thread, I'll take all the necessary actions which might result in eventual unpleasant consequences for you and/or the company you represent. Just a fair warning, and nothing personal, its part of my job."

The offensive statements were edited out by a mod where it says "MOD EDIT". Welcome to the thread.

From p.4:

Last edited by jsp1979 on Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:01 am; edited 1 time in total

And where is the racist suspicious statement of michi_mak? I only see that the post by kv33l got edited.

michi_mak is saying kv331 called him (michi_mak) a racist. That was what was edited out of kv331's post.

Ah... makes sense now. Well good thing it got deleted, calling someone a racist for nothing is bullshit.

I can see a dilemma. On the one hand Devs are part of the community, no doubt. We wouldn't have the same KVR if they were not. One of the great things here is being so close to the developers and getting a lot of insight.

Also sometimes a product means so much to you and changes your life (if you make a living of audio or even if music if a very large part of your life) so much that you want a way to give something back, it's nice to be able to speak to them here in public.

It's also a dilemma in that devs post useful information which people may not have known about, so their interaction is valid and called for in certain contexts, and yet it's repulsive in some other contexts. And to different members it will be perceived differently.

I have found it upsetting, it feels sometimes like the whole forum has become a market place. I consolidated all my business activity to one thread and put it in the Market place because of this. I don't want KVR to be a marketing platform, I like learning useful information from others.

In part, we are all to blame for this, because every other thread is "whats the best synth" or "what do you think about this or that synth?" instead of more useful topics. I've tried to contribute what I can here and there to more interesting topics.

I've heard it said that in medieval times scientists would stand around arguing about how many teeth a horse has with no interest at all in actually going out to count a horses teeth. I don't know how true that is, but sometimes I feel that way about a lot of the topics here.

A quick heads up like "hey this synth is actually really good, look at what you can do or how it sounds like this etc etc" but endless discussions about what synth I need, where someone chimes in "you just need x" and someone else
"y is the best" and so on.

(I've found that when making dense productions at least I've used almost every synth I have for one piece! Having the different characteristics of each one makes mixing much easier sine you don't have as much frequency masking, but thats maybe for another thread)

Discussion about effects are a little different imo, having a compressor on demo for 15 days is really not enough time to get a good idea about it sometimes, after all you may have been to busy to try a lot of things, or by the time your 15 days is over you may have learned a new technique. You can renew your demo periods, but there are so many to choose from.

Something feels like it's changed since I joined last year, but maybe it's just me.

I agree as well, I do not want to stop this from happening, I do not want to shut out anyone because you can learn something from everyone...so why would I want to block any other member (devs are members too and a large part of KvR and it's charm). Another thread asks "do these things really matter" and one is about how the company does business. I said yes to that because I wish to support companies that I want to be supportive of, some business practices I do not care for and I do not want to support those practices.

Example, when I was in retail I decided to leave the mega-store I was working at but I didn't leave until I had another job. I had two offers, the one I wanted the most I turned down and that's because of one single reason. They were big on cold calling people, speaking with other employees I found out how much they pushed cold calling and that not cold calling enough people often was the cause for termination of employees. I dont want people calling me out of the blue so I wont do it in return, that was my choice.

I make up my own mind on what is spammy, in general "how to", "what is the best" and such threads I welcome devs input. If the thread is about one company and another company rep or dev pops in and says "our product does this better" (or similar) I may find that spammy. It takes a little more info though, sometimes I find that it's likely the company rep popping in never even read other posts and was just plugging their product and I'm apt to (but not set in stone) look at that in a negative light. (this actually just happened within the last 48 hours)

Bottom line, I want to have as many facts as possible when dealing with a company so I can decide if I want to do business with them. Why would I opt to block out such info? Like my earlier post in this thread I can say what I like and do not like and see how the company reacts to it (and how they react to other praises and complaints from people). The most important part is I do not expect companies to act as I want them to, I may have to swallow my pride as it were and go with a company who I do not agree with their business practices but in fact they are the only game in town for my needs. But what a company does is not my choice, I will offer my opinion based on my experiences but by the same token I may be wrong. What matters to me may not matter to others, I dont want others forcing their "way" on me so I wont force my "ways" on them.

in my last post i was quite tactful in how i addressed this issue but since others have stated how they really feel i will say that more then once ive found myself mouthing 'not this guy again' when seeing the constant posts by lotuzia. and some what george. it does seem like spamming. like, somebody mention recommendations on a synth then lotuzia will recomend a few synth while at the same time mentioning a xils synth/fx. while george will give dsp links even when the synth or fx isnt related to the op question. other developers do this too. but not as much.

is it a serious forum crime? no. but i do think like others have said, it is quite annoying and intrusive when all i want to do is post a bit and browse kvr. but as i said in my earlier post, it is called kvr 'vst' and vst are made by developers. so its unreasonable to request no spam at all. i do think it could be toned down a bit though.

This is really weird.

The answer is not specific to you/for you.

Yes, and this is why what WhiteRabbyt proposed a few pages ago, ie devs mentioning other synths when they feel their own wont do, will never work.

I must be one of the very few to often mention a panel of different "similar" instruments ( like several VA with several flavors) when these questions are asked, because actually Ive worked with many of them and I love several different instruments.

Same when I talk about FM synths of samplers etc, or when I praise this or that additive or hybrid synth. I dont know a lot of other devs doing that do they ? ( But its just because I'm paid a dollar each time I make a post, I'm not really that interested to exchange with people )

And what does this leads to ? People think its only to sell a few more Xils units, as if I wasnt doing enough to recommand them in other threads.

So, recommand only Xils synths ? You spam. Recommend Xils AND other ones ? You spam. ( and its worse because you're not recommending the other synth as a possible real choice and in a sincere way, no you're just acting undercover ) Recommand one synth in a thread where EVERYBODY else makes the exact same thing ( Users, other devs ) ? You still spam.

Well sorry but I'm done with this "Us and Them" thing in this thread like it is. Everybody has made his point, and I did mine. I really dont see what I could say wich could possibly add something interesting to the debate.

Thanks to all the people who did express some moderate and interesting opinions in this thread, and especially to those who understand the -questionable- but -still- possible value of the infos I can share sometimes on this forum, and sorry for having annoyed .... the other ones.

Have fun, separate the us from the them, park them in some nice niches, so that everybody is happy, and the most important : multiply the rules so that I can feel at home like in a French administration, then ...... dont forget to include me out

Wait, you didn't recommend a synth yet.

[I kid, I kid]

Erm, I dont actually recognise that as being either of my proposals. The first proposal was that developers dont suggest their own products in 'what should I use/ what should I buy/ what's the best' type threads unless the OP flags the thread as okay to do so.

The second was that all developers should be explicitly identifiable as such.

At the end of the day, why would you say that moderating promotional posts in non-promotion threads would 'never work'? Is that an argument against even trying? Or that some developers don't have enough respect for KVR members to tone it down?



Well, I notice no-one on the other side of the fence tried to offer any kind of solution. I mean Im not keen on the promotional stuff, but at least Im trying to think of something that is a workable compromise.