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When do you use envelope shapers/transient designers?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion

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KVRAF
 
1584 posts since 22 Apr, 2011, from The House of Zaid

Postby @midnight; Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:14 pm When do you use envelope shapers/transient designers?

Just wondering in general what situations you guys like to use envelope shapers and where they might give superior results to just a good compressor?

And also, is it possible envelope shapers are superior tools in general than compressors are, for the given task?

I've never really used one, just wondering how you guys feel about them.
Has anybody ever really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
KVRAF
 
5549 posts since 4 May, 2007, from Mars Colony

Postby A.M. Gold; Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:40 pm

I find I can use them pretty broadly, but it's always a matter of experimentation. It's probably a very technical (and maybe murky) question as to when and where they are more appropriate than compressors, but I just throw them on (I've even used them on mixes) and see if they improve things in any case when I want things to be either punchier or have more smooth and even dynamics.

You probably saw it already, but I've been really pretty impressed with the new Sleepy-Time one:
http://www.kvraudio.com/product/transie ... me-records

Gives you several more options (and metering) than the other one I use, the SPL.
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KVRian
 
1398 posts since 24 Dec, 2004, from Melbourne, Australia
 

Postby sqigls; Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:59 am

808 kicks and snares :)
[for example]
Sometimes I use compression instead tho...
(among others) V-Plugs Uranium compressor is a modern touch to using compression as a groove tool/transient shaper.
KVRian
 
953 posts since 9 Sep, 2010

Postby Robmobius; Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:32 am

Depends... Great on snares for that sudden 'pop', and to punch them trough the mix. A lot of it's creative too as well. For DnB as an example, you would expect that short punchy snare and a TD is a great way to do it.

Good on Kicks too - Especially, if they have an unwanted tail after saturation or something.

Nice on short bass too. To emphasize the attack.

My weapon of choice is SPL Transient Designer. :)
KVRAF
 
1584 posts since 22 Apr, 2011, from The House of Zaid

Postby @midnight; Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:48 pm

Robmobius wrote:Depends... Great on snares for that sudden 'pop', and to punch them trough the mix. A lot of it's creative too as well. For DnB as an example, you would expect that short punchy snare and a TD is a great way to do it.

Good on Kicks too - Especially, if they have an unwanted tail after saturation or something.

Nice on short bass too. To emphasize the attack.

My weapon of choice is SPL Transient Designer. :)


yeah but i can use a simple SSL bus compressor to do all that

i just wonder what makes the TD different. i guess ill just have to try it
Has anybody ever really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
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KVRAF
 
8853 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:55 pm

Maybe because a transient designer is easier to use??

Of course, you can use a compressor as transient designer, too (with adjustment of the attack and release times, plus make-up gain). But I think a transient designer is a more straight-forward approach, at least for the beat...
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KVRian
 
1398 posts since 24 Dec, 2004, from Melbourne, Australia
 

Postby sqigls; Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:59 am

Yes, try some transient designers i urge you.

I guess you could say adding release with compressors is a bit like the decay to release phase of an AHDSR envelope, where transient designers act more like the hold to decay phase of such an envelope, kinda thing, i guess depending on the material you're working with. I would say they're generally a bit more surgical.
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KVRAF
 
8277 posts since 2 Oct, 2006, from ,Location, Location
 

Postby musikmachine; Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:47 am

@midnight wrote:
Robmobius wrote:Depends... Great on snares for that sudden 'pop', and to punch them trough the mix. A lot of it's creative too as well. For DnB as an example, you would expect that short punchy snare and a TD is a great way to do it.

Good on Kicks too - Especially, if they have an unwanted tail after saturation or something.

Nice on short bass too. To emphasize the attack.

My weapon of choice is SPL Transient Designer. :)


yeah but i can use a simple SSL bus compressor to do all that

i just wonder what makes the TD different. i guess ill just have to try it

Can you shape the transient of the kick with that? You can shape the attack portion of the kick drum very precisely to add punch making the kick cut through in a busy mix. Transient shaper with a saturator and eq are a great set of tools for surgically designing kick drums for edm, especially when layering samples or synth parts to precisely define the attack, body and decay portions of the drums. :)
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KVRian
 
1398 posts since 24 Dec, 2004, from Melbourne, Australia
 

Postby sqigls; Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:12 am

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KVRAF
 
2417 posts since 17 Mar, 2011, from Spain
    

Postby IrionDaRonin; Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:05 am

I'm using Flux BitterSweet II for free.
Great plugin, i can tell.

Have a good day :)
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KVRist
 
488 posts since 3 Dec, 2011

Postby waltercruz; Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:14 am

IrionDaRonin wrote:I'm using Flux BitterSweet II for free.
Great plugin, i can tell.

Have a good day :)


Thanks for the tip IrionDaRonin, I didn't knew BitterSweet II.
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My soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/waltercruz
KVRian
 
1037 posts since 20 Nov, 2004, from Seinäjoki, Finland
 

Postby gravehill; Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:33 am

I usually try transient designers on everything percussive and also on VA sounds. On analog emulations the effect is like simulating a faster envelope speed. They're worth trying on anything with distinctive attack really.
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KVRian
 
953 posts since 9 Sep, 2010

Postby Robmobius; Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:03 am

As OP said, you can really shape your drums with very little effort, and likewise for on short bass too.

Probably hard to explain, but once you use them for a bit it's hard to go back.

Bittersweet is good one for free. Audio Schaack's transient shaper is decent as well.

So far, the SPL is my personal fav tho'.
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KVRAF
 
6090 posts since 4 Oct, 2007, from A shitty little village that I will re-escape soon
    

Postby Dean Aka Nekro; Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:14 am

On kick drum builds and bus/auxes, Sometimes inserts actually alot
Snare pretty much the same really
Toms alot
full drumkit sub mixes
Guitar and bass even get shaped if it is working.
Most useful for drum overhead mic's and room/ambient mics that have/do sometimes pickup just abit more room than desired

Just give whichever one or ones you have a whirl on anything where you may perhaps first usually reach for your compressor of choice (To a rather large extent I see/hear you on 'why not just use a compressor to do the job?' and indeed I use compressors to shape envelopes/transients also so its a blurry area. Still you'll know which/what you prefer and there are differences. Unfortunately none of the software Transient Designer/Shaper/Modulator processors can handle as much abuse and sound great as the analogue outboard models I am familar with).

Works well for me running transient shaping tools both before and/or after compressors in 'series'. There are no rules with these devices so just use on all sources you can and let your ears be the judge, Joe Meek it basically ;)

All the best as always :)

Dean
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KVRAF
 
2833 posts since 29 Jun, 2011
   

Postby Aiynzahev; Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:27 am

When I am really stuck.
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Resonance Sound
Sound Designer - Soundsets for Spire, Zebra2, Massive, DIVA, Sylenth and others
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