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Access Virus ti Os5 and Logic Pro 9.17 working ok?

Anything about hardware musical instruments.

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

KVRer
 
6 posts since 26 Jul, 2012

Postby gearslut; Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:51 pm Access Virus ti Os5 and Logic Pro 9.17 working ok?

I'm looking to buy a Access Virus Ti to use as my main midi keyboard, and of course, as a digital analogue synth. However, I'm wondering how well the newest access update is working with Logic Pro 9.17? How does the integrated functions work? How does it work as a stand alone midi?

I've seen lots of people posting issue with the compatibility of Access Virus ti with Logic Pro, but have not found as many people finding problems with the newest update (OS5). Is the newest update working any better or worse with Logic Pro 9.17?

I'm running a 2010 Macbook Pro running OS X 10.6.8 with 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor 4GB of 1066MHz DDR3 memory, and a Motu Audio Express USB 2.0.

By the way, I am prepared for some Bugs, I'd just like to know what im up against!
KVRist
 
34 posts since 5 Feb, 2012

Postby Gadget Fiend; Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:59 am

gearslut wrote:I'm looking to buy a Access Virus Ti to use as my main midi keyboard, and of course, as a digital analogue synth. However, I'm wondering how well the newest access update is working with Logic Pro 9.17?

By the way, I am prepared for some Bugs, I'd just like to know what im up against!


Be prepared for more than "some bugs." While I love the sound of my Virus TI and the feel and styling of the keyboard, the Virus Control plug-in simply does not work in Logic (and barely works in Cubase). You will experience everything from a cacophony of crazy garbled audio, LFOs and arpeggios that won't stay in sync, unreliable connections (forcing you to reboot both the Virus and your computer,) etc. Basically it's a nightmare that will have you pulling your hair out.

Having said this, the Virus is still a great synth to use as your main MIDI keyboard. Just be prepared to use it via MIDI (with actual MIDI cables and not MIDI over USB). When you do, everything works great (including the syncing of LFOs and arpeggios).

Of course, that defeats the whole purpose of the "Total Integration" concept. It's just too bad that after 5+ years Access still can't get this working reliably. If they would just come out with a standalone MIDI editor version of the Virus Control software, they would solve 99% of the problems people are having with the synth and its software.

In the end, if you go in with the right expectations, you won't be as disappointed as I was.
KVRian
 
661 posts since 12 Sep, 2007, from Sweden

Postby JimmiG; Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:59 am

Gadget Fiend wrote:It's just too bad that after 5+ years Access still can't get this working reliably. If they would just come out with a standalone MIDI editor version of the Virus Control software, they would solve 99% of the problems people are having with the synth and its software.


I think the core issue is the hardware, and their decision to go with USB 1.1 rather than USB 2.0 (which was definietly available when they developed the TI).
The TI is essentially a DSP card in a box with a USB connection. DSP-based hardware works fine over PCI, PCI-E or Firewire, but USB 1.x just doesn't have the latency and bandwidth to work consitently for everyone. Not only that, but making USB 1.x devices work together with USB 2 devices can cause additional problems.

For me, the TI system works great in Studio One. In Reaper, there's severe latency.
Last edited by JimmiG on Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hardware: Akai MPK61, MFB-Synth II, Roland JX-8P, Virus TI Snow, KORG MS2000R, Roland SH-01
Favorite software: Sylenth1, Synth1, Messiah, ME80, OPX-Pro II, Zebra 2, Diva, Reason, Studio One V2 Pro
KVRer
 
6 posts since 26 Jul, 2012

Postby gearslut; Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:58 am

Hey guys thanks for the responses!

I'm pretty sure that the access ti2 is only 25% more dsp + sleeker look, but i also read that it's compatible with usb 2.0. Would that make any difference?

Can you use some of the functions with out the bugs?

And how do you get around the bugs? Do you just record into audio instead of "integrated mode" ?
KVRian
 
661 posts since 12 Sep, 2007, from Sweden

Postby JimmiG; Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:09 pm

I think they just mean that the synth will work if you plug it into a USB 2.0 port. Same with the TI 1.

It sais on their page:
"The USB port is compatible with the USB 2.0 Specification and works with USB and Hi-Speed USB systems, peripherals and cables. Port speed is 12 mbit/sec."
http://virus.info/page/render/lang/en/p ... tions.html

12 Mb/s happens to be the speed of a USB 1.1 port. USB 2.0 is 480 Mb/s and USB 3.0 is 5120 Mb/s (that extra 0 is not a typo).
Hardware: Akai MPK61, MFB-Synth II, Roland JX-8P, Virus TI Snow, KORG MS2000R, Roland SH-01
Favorite software: Sylenth1, Synth1, Messiah, ME80, OPX-Pro II, Zebra 2, Diva, Reason, Studio One V2 Pro
KVRist
 
34 posts since 5 Feb, 2012

Postby Gadget Fiend; Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:11 am

gearslut wrote:Can you use some of the functions with out the bugs?

And how do you get around the bugs? Do you just record into audio instead of "integrated mode" ?


I'm not sure I would characterize the issues as "bugs" per se. As the other poster pointed out, the problems with the TI seem to stem from the fact that its USB 1.1 connection just doesn't have the bandwidth to do what is required. In other words, the issues seem to be inherent in the technical design of the product. Then again, I'm not an engineer so I'm just speculating here.

Regarding workarounds, you have a couple of options:

"Print" the tracks as audio as soon as you are happy with the part. This "solves" the issue by basically not using your Virus any longer in your song (after initially recording your parts).

Depending on your preferred workflow, this may or may not be a viable solution. I personally think it defeats the purpose of having an external synth that is not consuming computer resources. I feel you should be able to run the synth "live" and not have to convert your parts to audio. But that's just me.

Another option, which is what I do, is to simply not use the "Total Integration" features of the TI at all. I just connect the Virus to my MIDI interface via standard MIDI cables and the audio output of the Virus to a couple of inputs on my audio interface. So I am using the Virus like any other external synth and do all of my editing from the front panel of the unit.

When I do need to perform more advanced patch management or detailed sound editing, I will connect the Virus via USB to my computer and use the Virus Control plugin/editor within my DAW. But in this situation, I am not trying to play a song back at the same time which causes the Virus to choke and lose sync. It's not the ideal situation (and absolutely not what Access is promising,) but it works okay.

It's just annoying that after paying a lot of money for the Virus, it doesn't work like it's supposed to. :-(
User avatar
KVRAF
 
2920 posts since 22 Jul, 2006, from Melbourne, Australia
  

Postby nix808; Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:24 am

I think USB bandwidth is not the sole problem.
It works well on Windows Vista plugged into a
USB 2 port, but originally I had sync issues,
of arp and delay in Orion and Fruity.
This was solved by an update, either of driver or VC.
I mean it works as should, no glitches,
so u can use VC to edit fine,
unlike on Mac by the sounds of things.
It is however sucky in regards to latency.
I can design my sound, but not play it realtime when
streaming over USB.

2 things I thought I would mention-
I have used it as a soundcard really intensively,
it is my default interface. It works well as such.
Also I have a TI 1, it's like 5 years old,
build quality is superb, nothing is broken.
Oh-except the PSU was junk, needed to be replaced.
KVRer
 
6 posts since 26 Jul, 2012

Postby gearslut; Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:36 pm

Do the low latency, glitches, and bugs occur all the time or only when you are making complex patches? In other words, if you played a simple preset with out tweaking it would it cause the before mentioned problems?

Thanks for the help!
KVRAF
 
1800 posts since 23 Dec, 2003

Postby Dr.Wu; Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:55 pm

no lateny problems on my macpro
but the TI needs to be on its own separate USB bus
User avatar
KVRAF
 
1898 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Corporate States of America
  

Postby Jace-BeOS; Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:55 pm

This is interesting and sad. I have a TI original desktop model. I tried out the Total Integration on a Sonar project on a PC with a few tracks and was amazed that it worked at all. It beat the piss out of the Receptor's uniwire performance (which is better on the Mac), so I assumed it would be fine on my MacBook Pro when I'm done moving my stuff out of the Windows prison.

How complex a project can you create with the TI in Logic 9 before it falls over itself? As others have said, yes we can use it like any external synth, but that defeats the whole purpose of TI.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud
User avatar
KVRian
 
1133 posts since 9 Dec, 2011

Postby billcarroll; Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:50 pm

Dr.Wu wrote:no lateny problems on my macpro
but the TI needs to be on its own separate USB bus


No issues here on my macbook pro either. Works great with Logic 9.1.8, Ableton Live, and Cubase 6.5 actually. I'll second the recommendation "needs it's own USB bus", but once you sort that out it works very very well.
KVRer
 
6 posts since 26 Jul, 2012

Postby gearslut; Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:30 pm

Nice to hear some positive news!

By usb bus do you mean a separate usb hub that you have attached to your mac?

Sorry for the noob questions

:help: me
User avatar
KVRAF
 
1898 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Corporate States of America
  

Postby Jace-BeOS; Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:51 pm

gearslut wrote:Nice to hear some positive news!

By usb bus do you mean a separate usb hub that you have attached to your mac?

Sorry for the noob questions

:help: me


Usually this means plugging in directly to the computer, and NOT into a hub. There are actually multiple busses of USB in many computers. The more hubs you plug in, the more those busses share bandwidth. It's not trivial to determine if a USB socket on your computer is already a hub branch, presented as a root for convenience, or if it's actually a root device. (What makes this worse, IMO, on Windows, is how Windows demands another driver installation for EACH and EVERY USB port you plug the same device into - if Macs do this, it's 100% transparent and doesn't bother me as the user)
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud
User avatar
KVRAF
 
2920 posts since 22 Jul, 2006, from Melbourne, Australia
  

Postby nix808; Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:08 am

Without a doubt-
USB splitters aren't Virus friendly.
It's in the manual,
I have never tried it though.
I haven't got mine as the only one on a root hub, I think,
maybe that would help playing in realtime.
They say not to use a splitter though.
Also-u can't switch the port it plugs into.
I make it the first one in my box,
as nothing else asks this.
KVRian
 
567 posts since 6 Jun, 2009

Postby Ashe37; Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:32 am

Actually, the now-advised configuration is to connect the Virus Ti on a port on a MTT usb hub. If you're running an Intel H77 or Z77 chipset, its actually pretty necessary.
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