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SoftAmp 3OD Bug

Talk about all things "KVR Developer Challenge" related.

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Holophonic
KVRist
 
442 posts since 22 Nov, 2005

Postby Holophonic; Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:32 am SoftAmp 3OD Bug

When i click any of the switch buttons on the plugin it makes a nasty pop sound, Anyone else getting this ?

XP SP3 - AMD CPU
User avatar
RunBeerRun
KVRAF
 
7343 posts since 2 Aug, 2005, from Guitar Land, USA

Postby RunBeerRun; Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:48 pm

It doesn't load at all here, no manual or anything on the main dc12 page to say what dependencies it needs?
The only site for experimental amp sim freeware & MIDI FX: http://runbeerrun.blogspot.com
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bob bobwood
KVRian
 
1434 posts since 24 Apr, 2010, from Nottingham

Postby bob bobwood; Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:05 pm

Holophonic wrote:When i click any of the switch buttons on the plugin it makes a nasty pop sound, Anyone else getting this ?

XP SP3 - AMD CPU

Only on the 3 Triode and 3 Plate but I would call them slight pops rather than nasty pops. FL9 XP SP3 P4 2GB RAM
A-Z of Plugins, etc updated October 7th 2014
AXP
KVRist
 
84 posts since 24 Mar, 2012

Postby AXP; Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:54 pm

Thank you for feedback and for creating this thread.

Let's go one-by-one.

Holophonic wrote:When i click any of the switch buttons on the plugin it makes a nasty pop sound, Anyone else getting this ?
XP SP3 - AMD CPU


When any button is clicked, the circuit is re-modelled with new parameters. Under some circumstances (heavy load for example) it may lead to dropouts. I'm considering moving modelling code to a lower-priority thread, but naive implementation would have some obvious drawbacks like unbounded delay before the parameter change is actually applied.

I'll definitely look into this ASAP.

RunBeerRun wrote:It doesn't load at all here, no manual or anything on the main dc12 page to say what dependencies it needs?

I've omitted the manual because the plugin is so small and simple that I assumed it would be self-explanative. My bad with dependencies though, it probably couldn't find the "msvcr100.dll". I'll make sure to statically link it in the next version, so you won't have to do anything.

bob bobwood wrote:Only on the 3 Triode and 3 Plate but I would call them slight pops rather than nasty pops.

When you switch plate voltages and/or triode models, the output level may change pretty drastically, especially if "normalize output" switch is disabled. Maybe that causes the pops you hear. The option is to crossfade during the transients, but I'm not sure that it won't lead to even worse problems.
I'll keep an eye on this though.


To sum it up, I'm going to release an updated version with bugfixes based on your feedback as well as some more from the product discussion page. Hopefully you'll see it tomorrow.

Thanks again for your contribution!
Compyfox
KVRAF
 
11237 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:58 am

I'm also looking for the update, since it doesn't pop up in my plugin folder here eiter.

MSVCR100.dll looks like a Visual C runtime, but an old one.
AXP
KVRist
 
84 posts since 24 Mar, 2012

Postby AXP; Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:12 pm

The new version is released. Please head to the product page to download it!
here's the direct link: http://static.kvraudio.com/files/1917/axp_softamp_3od_1_0_1.zip
Jonas78
KVRian
 
1010 posts since 27 May, 2003, from NIJMEGEN / HOLLAND

Postby Jonas78; Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:51 pm

Thanks for the plugin!
Compyfox
KVRAF
 
11237 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:57 am

Thanks for the update. I can now confirm that it's working in Cubase 6. Though it has "click" noises if I press the buttons (doesn't matter which model or setting).


Still have to further test it, and wrap my head around of what's doing what.
I think the capacitors control the LPF. And the lower the voltage, the stronger the saturation of the triode.

Interesting yet simple concept.


While I do like the left/right mouse button control for input gain and output gain, I don't like the broad settings. Can't match the input with the output signal.

And should it ever see a port to Mac - the "one mouse button" users will definitely love this. ;)
AXP
KVRist
 
84 posts since 24 Mar, 2012

Postby AXP; Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:09 am

Compyfox wrote:Thanks for the update. I can now confirm that it's working in Cubase 6. Though it has "click" noises if I press the buttons (doesn't matter which model or setting).


Still have to further test it, and wrap my head around of what's doing what.
I think the capacitors control the LPF. And the lower the voltage, the stronger the saturation of the triode.

Interesting yet simple concept.


Thank you for feedback! Please let me know if you have any issues, I'll be glad to help.

Since version 1.0.1 there shouldn't be any clicks caused by different DC offsets of different tube configurations. However there are still clicks caused by different gains. I'm still working on that. I have a quick and dirty solution while I'm still looking for a 'proper' way to deal with it. I hope that it doesn't cause you too much problems for now, but I'll for sure fix it.

As for controls, you are almost right. The capacitor value works like a HPF filter. In the prototype curcuit it functions as an DC autobias filter, so the higher value is desired to reduce its effect on the audio band. However in guitar tube amp designs it plays the dual role of rolling-off some of the low frequencies to reduce the muddness they would cause if overdriven too much. So for guitars a lesser cap value is used, usually 0.47uF.

The plate voltage is the power source voltage applied to the tube's plate. Since both the positive current saturation and zero current cut-off depend on this voltage, it will affect the amount of distortion it introduces. In other words, the more the voltage, the more headroom there is before tube starts saturating.

I think I need to include this into the product description page.
AXP
KVRist
 
84 posts since 24 Mar, 2012

Postby AXP; Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:14 am

Compyfox wrote:While I do like the left/right mouse button control for input gain and output gain, I don't like the broad settings. Can't match the input with the output signal.

And should it ever see a port to Mac - the "one mouse button" users will definitely love this. ;)


To be honest, at first the settings were much more narrow. But then I thought that someone would want to try to drive it very hard, so I've increased the range. So you mean that the resolution of the gain controls is too low?
I see a number of options here:
1. reduce the control range, rely on external host controls for high input overdrive.
2. reduce the control range, add "boost" button
3. keep the control range, but allow fine-tuning with "shift" key.
I'll look into this.

Oh yeah, I'll get even more "love" from touch screen users :)

Yet I didn't want this simple plugin to occupy the whole screen, hence the combined gain control.
User avatar
U-o
KVRian
 
645 posts since 16 Nov, 2011

Postby U-o; Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:51 am

AXP wrote:Yet I didn't want this simple plugin to occupy the whole screen, hence the combined gain control.


+ 1

I like this plug-in, you have my vote.
FL Studio Producer Edition
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Compyfox
KVRAF
 
11237 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:01 am

AXP wrote:Since version 1.0.1 there shouldn't be any clicks caused by different DC offsets of different tube configurations. However there are still clicks caused by different gains. I'm still working on that. I have a quick and dirty solution while I'm still looking for a 'proper' way to deal with it. I hope that it doesn't cause you too much problems for now, but I'll for sure fix it.


I'm fine for the time being. Usually I set up one tube, then go from there. Unless I want to do some A/Bing.


AXP wrote:As for controls, you are almost right. The capacitor value works like a HPF filter. In the prototype curcuit it functions as an DC autobias filter, so the higher value is desired to reduce its effect on the audio band. However in guitar tube amp designs it plays the dual role of rolling-off some of the low frequencies to reduce the muddness they would cause if overdriven too much. So for guitars a lesser cap value is used, usually 0.47uF.


Hm... so you use the capacitor as LowCut and just focus on the harmonic content.



AXP wrote:The plate voltage is the power source voltage applied to the tube's plate. Since both the positive current saturation and zero current cut-off depend on this voltage, it will affect the amount of distortion it introduces. In other words, the more the voltage, the more headroom there is before tube starts saturating.


So my guess was right. Just one question right there: do we talk AC or DC, and if DC, inverted currency or not? To my understanding with basic electronics, this would affect the sound of the tube, no?


AXP wrote:I think I need to include this into the product description page.


Maybe, or a basic routing diagram with symbols for LowCut/HPF, tube and voltage (with a multi-switch). Maybe on the backpanel in a future update.


AXP wrote:To be honest, at first the settings were much more narrow. But then I thought that someone would want to try to drive it very hard, so I've increased the range. So you mean that the resolution of the gain controls is too low?


Well, I don't know at what values the LED blips are. Not saying that it's too low, just too broad.


AXP wrote:I see a number of options here:
1. reduce the control range, rely on external host controls for high input overdrive.
2. reduce the control range, add "boost" button
3. keep the control range, but allow fine-tuning with "shift" key.
I'll look into this.


Working concepts are boost buttons and fine tuning with the shift key. Both in combination make it very versatile.


AXP wrote:Oh yeah, I'll get even more "love" from touch screen users :)


Heh, yeah. But I hope for most plugins that they will be cross-platform eventually. I'm not on a Mac, but I often work on Macs and would love to use the tools I usually "misuse" on the PC.


AXP wrote:Yet I didn't want this simple plugin to occupy the whole screen, hence the combined gain control.


Dual knobs, like NEVE and API consoles. Inside controls input gain, outside controls plugin output. Might be something for a future version after the DC.



Else, indeed simple, easy to understand. A bit dark and too consumer HIFI device looking for my liking. But it does what it should.
Genetic_Junk
KVRAF
 
2504 posts since 21 Dec, 2004

Postby Genetic_Junk; Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:21 am

Everything is working here. Little clicks when changing the models (nothing significant). Maybe after the contest you could add options for even lower plate voltages.

Thank you for the plugin.
AXP
KVRist
 
84 posts since 24 Mar, 2012

Postby AXP; Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:50 pm

I would like to thank you all for attention and good words about my work as well as constructive and reasonable comments. This is my first ever public release so it's very encouraging. I've got a lot of other DSP stuff ready and will be working on adding UI and polishing it after the DC ends.

Compyfox wrote:
AXP wrote:As for controls, you are almost right. The capacitor value works like a HPF filter. In the prototype curcuit it functions as an DC autobias filter, so the higher value is desired to reduce its effect on the audio band. However in guitar tube amp designs it plays the dual role of rolling-off some of the low frequencies to reduce the muddness they would cause if overdriven too much. So for guitars a lesser cap value is used, usually 0.47uF.


Hm... so you use the capacitor as LowCut and just focus on the harmonic content.

This sounds like I'm cutting some corners :) This behaviour is inherent to the analog circuit, and so is inherited by the digital model.


Compyfox wrote:
AXP wrote:The plate voltage is the power source voltage applied to the tube's plate. Since both the positive current saturation and zero current cut-off depend on this voltage, it will affect the amount of distortion it introduces. In other words, the more the voltage, the more headroom there is before tube starts saturating.


So my guess was right. Just one question right there: do we talk AC or DC, and if DC, inverted currency or not? To my understanding with basic electronics, this would affect the sound of the tube, no?

Not sure if I got you right. This value is the voltage applied to the plate resistor. So it's an ideal DC source. I didn't model the power supply, with associated AC ripple, voltage sag, etc. Maybe I will in future, but I'm not sure those effects would be noticeable in the preamp stage.

Compyfox wrote:Maybe, or a basic routing diagram with symbols for LowCut/HPF, tube and voltage (with a multi-switch). Maybe on the backpanel in a future update.

Yeah, now I really think it calls for that.

Compyfox wrote:Well, I don't know at what values the LED blips are. Not saying that it's too low, just too broad.

Well, the ideas is that you play around with knobs using the scope plot as a reference. I.e. when the transfer characterisitc line is right at 45 degrees you've got 0dB overall gain. If you want more distortion, increase the input gain and decrease output. For your reference, the knobs range is the following:
input gain: -12...+36dB
output gain: -24...+24dB



Compyfox wrote:Dual knobs, like NEVE and API consoles. Inside controls input gain, outside controls plugin output. Might be something for a future version after the DC. Else, indeed simple, easy to understand. A bit dark and too consumer HIFI device looking for my liking. But it does what it should.

That would reduce the clickable area of each control. I might then as well just put two smaller knobs side-by-side.
After all design is design. I wanted it to look somewhat distinguishable without being unusable.
Compyfox
KVRAF
 
11237 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:11 am

Answers pretty much all of my questions.

BTW: Your "knob" design is a dual knob design already.
Well, the Mac generation can still use the ALT key (or is it the apple key?) prior to clicking - should that plugin be ported. :tu:
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