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When is enough 'enough'?

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

tapper mike
KVRAF
 
3654 posts since 19 Jan, 2008

Postby tapper mike; Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:53 pm

Stevie Wonder has to have at least two of everything. That must be great for him to afford it.

Recording should be an event not an excuse to do something because your bored.

Get your act together before you record. Set yourself a recording day once a week and don't record on any other day. It will give you a chance to line up your ducks. Think about what you are going to do and work it out before you do it. If you make the prospect of recording an event rather then the excuse of I've got some time on my hands you increase the possibility of success.

Learn to live with the tools that you have. Make wanting to record something good more important then just fiddling around. You may come up with toi many unfocused ideas rather then a good focused idea that you can bring to fruition.

I know a young guy who plays guitars and sings. He records one song a week. He focuses his attention on doing that one song. Not on facebook or kvr or checking his phone. I've heard a lot of his stuff. Each week his playing gets stronger and more confident as does his singing. It's that single mindedness which is making it a reality for him. He's focusing on being the best him he could be. Not trying to be someone he's not. It's working.

Think of yourself as a Composer first, an arranger second, a musician third and an engineer last.

Do you have a song? Write one. Define the song form, progression and melody line first. Arrange it. What instruments and style do you want it to be in. Think about how you are going to support the melody line. Play it. Remember the song is not just an excuse to play your instrument. The song is the goal. When you are practicing backing tracks and melody lines think is this subtracting from or supporting the foundational elements. Record it. When you treat the song as the first priority rather then just wanting to play your instrument. You can focus in on what is required to make the song happen. It's not a jam. It's a composition with an arrangement. If you are over playing the part or under playing it you are taking away from the song. Play for the song not for your ego as a musician. As an engineer your job is not to rewrite the song. Your job is to give fair representation of the music.

I studied recording engineering under the masters of motown. They would spend three times the amount of time used in recording for mixdown and mastering. Even when a band would have the material down cold before recording it would take at bare minimum an hour. This is after the hours and hours spent getting down the song before they recorded. This isn't a luxury for the studio musician. But studio musicians work from sheet music and there is little tolerance to those who can't sight play/ sight sing on tap. My point is this. Bring your A game to record. If you don't think your songs are worth recording then don't bother. If you don't think your skill level doesn't matter then don't bother. You don't have to be the greatest whatever but you do have to be the best you you have to offer.

Make the most of yourself, for that is all there is of you.

It's not your guitar that is holding you back from playing your best or whatever instrument you have.

When I studied under the masters of motown they kept on reinforcing the dedication to the mix. They would spend three times the amount of time to mixdown and master as it took to record. Take your time with mix down and mastering. Your goal is not to rewrite the song. Listen to it flat for a good long time before you start eq'ing mixing down and adding basic compression and reverb. Treat post production with reverence. Like you are a third person and someone else has just handed you all their hopes and dreams. Don't crush that hard work. Treat it with respect.

Even if the world doesn't give you the respect you deserve you can still have self respect and the pride that comes from a job well done.
kritikon
KVRAF
 
5071 posts since 23 May, 2002, from Tutukaka, New Zealand

Postby kritikon; Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:48 am

So I ask everyone...think about what you have. Make a list like I've done....then ask. Just what else would you say you need desperately?


XoXbOx
Jupiter6
PCM90
A decent 24 channel mixer again (never should have got rid of the last one)
OSCar (never should have got rid of that either)
Manley Eq
MiniBrute
Probably around 3 Analogue Solutions synths
A modular

That about does it. Although there are plenty of other things I desperately need too. I just don't have the time to list them all. :hihi:

I don't understand this "we have to keep it simple" idea. No I don't. Making music isn't always about making a completed track. For me, most of the time, it's about the whole process, and that includes using lots of diffent synths and gadgets. The gadgets are part of what keep me interested. Always will be, to the point that often I'm not even interested in making a "track" as such. I like gear, I like lots of different sounding synths and TBH I'd find making any kind of music with only minimal gear as inherently boring and uninspiring. I'll keep collecting gear, thanks. You methodists out there can strip down your gear, stop buying stuff (which nowadays is hardly expensive) and leave all the fun to us that appreciate it. :P
Last edited by kritikon on Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
kritikon
KVRAF
 
5071 posts since 23 May, 2002, from Tutukaka, New Zealand

Postby kritikon; Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:50 am

As to the original question. There is no "enough". It is never enough.
Doug1978
KVRian
 
1474 posts since 19 Jun, 2011, from Sendai, Japan

Postby Doug1978; Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:22 am

StateMedia wrote:Hmm. I'm having a think about what I have at my disposal, and it's made me wonder....just when is enough.....really enough.
...
So I ask everyone...think about what you have. Make a list like I've done....then ask. Just what else would you say you need desperately?

It would take me MONTHS if not a whole year to get through all I own in any sincere depth then what I know now. And that just feels so anti-productive. The scary thing is though....I'm not finished with things I desire...




To be honest, there's been 'enough' already of these hand-wringing threads on KVR in recent months.

If people have got a problem with how many products they've bought then sell some of them and quit worrying.
If you have a problem with how many more you could buy, then don't buy them.
And if you have no problem at all then just make some music.


Life's too short to worry about some frigging meaningless issues on KVR like these. Too much talk about bollocks and not enough action is where the real anti-productivity is.

So by all means everyone make your lists. But why not just make music with the products that you like and just sell the rest?


And FWIW, I have a perfect number of products and I wouldn't sell any of them.
User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
 
33778 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass

Postby vurt; Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:46 am

hardware
3 digital va's
few analogue bits, including home made stuff.
modular synth.
5 guitars (2 acoustic[1 12 string], 3 electrics)
2 drum machines
1 bass
couple of ukuleles
a glockenspiel.
kaoss pad2
various midi controllers
more fx than i can be arsed counting.
2 theremins.
a few amps/cabs
2 mixing desks
about 2 miles of cables :lol:
several circuit bent items


software
2 hosts(1 good for midi, 1 good for audio)
a core of 12 regularly used softsynths
again more fx than i can be arsed counting.
a few one trick ponies that get used occassionally as and when needed.
a few standalone apps, for data bending.

needs (i dont really have any "needs" but there are a handful of items i would like to purchase over time.
a couple of software synths. more racks for the modular.
any interesting fx that come along, either soft or hard.
a keyboard that outputs cv would be nice.
a new banjo, i sold mine when i was 12 to buy my first guitar (at that age guitar seemed to get more girls than a banjo :hihi:) although nowadays due to nerve damage im not sure i could play, eg my guitar playing has had to adapt and no longer resembles other guitar players...

im no so much a minimalist gear wise, its more that i dont have much money. if i had the cash id probably buy more but i know i dont need more stuff, if i cant make music with what i already have i should sell it and spend the cash on lego.
StateMedia
KVRist
 
74 posts since 14 Oct, 2009, from UK

Postby StateMedia; Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:47 am

Hmm. Well.

Some interesting points being brought up there. It seems that people have different views and approaches to the original topic.

I do believe there is a point you have to say 'no more'. Even if you are one of the most gifted musicians or engineers out there, surely you would reach a point where you'd find the things you want and therefore wouldn't buy anymore. Or run out of cash. Yes, I've heard the stories about people going without food to buy gear etc and then hitting it big. But I'm sure most people are too sensible for that.

In terms of what I have, a natural pecking order is occurring. I go to Ableton or Maschine first depending on what I'm trying to achieve, then Logic and Reason hasn't been started in months.

What happens then is quite weird though. There are bits of library I like in all of the above, but obviously they are native to each app. That's why I keep the 3rd party stuff. But it's still annoying at times....knowing that exact bass sound I want is in Ableton, but on that day I'm in Logic etc. I know I could work round and Rewire and sync the lot together..

I couldn't justify spending anymore then I have already. Not for at least 18 months to 2 years. It'd be nice to be a professional but in the cold light of day. I'm not. It's been that long since I managed to sit down and do a session that I'm struggling to use the things I've had awhile like Logic9, let alone new things I've picked up recently like Maschine. If I bought anymore, I'd just be digging myself a deeper hole with my bank.

I think this is where KVR is going to become slightly counter-productive. Specifically the buying and selling forum. I can't lie, I still think it's the best one out there. But if it wasn't so easy to trade stuff, I think i'd be more likely to stick it out with what I have. Rather then just keep seeing things I think I need...or worse things that are just a pure lustful waste coming up from time to time.

I've now decided on no more new additions to my setup. If updates come along to things I have already, I will consider them but not just say yes either. So if you see me trying to buy stuff on here...please give me a gentle reminder :help:

Finally. I'll leave you with something that both inspired and P*ssed me off this morning. I'm not a massive fan of Deadmau5, but one of his tracks I do like is 'Strobe'. Went to look up to see if there was a video of someone recreating it on Youtube and found this guy. ...... with what looks like a proper minimal setup...making it look very easy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYjfPprOd38

I'm off to buy an E-SX (again...I bought one at uni and sold it) and an iPad (Jokes) :D
User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
 
33778 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass

Postby vurt; Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:48 am

im not listing specifics as this is not a "recommend me a synth" type thread.
Lotuzia
KVRAF
 
7517 posts since 19 Feb, 2004, from Paris

Postby Lotuzia; Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:10 am

Eventually its not enough when you need something that is not in your current arsenal. :shrug:

So you can need accurate divisi strings or a very detailed bagpipe, or synths/effects with a different sonic character, or effects with new features, or all rounders with a workflow you find more intuitive than what you have, or one trick poneys, its as diverse as that.

Otoh if you think you have not mastered what you already have, and by this I dont mean browsing every preset in every plug, but merely have a precise idea of what it might do for you, and what it will never do, then its probably more productive to first consider master it, and buying new things on a slower levelt.

My 0.002

LtZ
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Synth Presets

77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there
User avatar
robojam
KVRAF
 
21027 posts since 26 Jul, 2005, from Inside Schroedinger's Cat...or am I...

Postby robojam; Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:38 am

My list would be:

Ableton Live
Propellerheads Reason
EnergyXT
NI Komplete
Rayzoon Jamstix
Sampletron
A bunch of other software

88 Key keyboard
Electric Guitar
Acoustic Guitar
Mandolin
5 string banjo
Violin
Bass guitar
Alto sax
Bb trumpet
Concert flute
Bansuri
Dizi
Tin whistle
Chromatic harmonica
A few diatonic harmonicas
Ebow
Guitar slides

Probably stuff I've forgotten.

Works for me.
trimph1
KVRAF
 
13991 posts since 23 Jun, 2010, from north of London ON

Postby trimph1; Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:57 am

Here we have Sonar X2
Reaper 4
Dune CM
A bunch of effect VST's

4 Guitars
2 Basses
Tenor and Baritone Saxes
Bb Trumpet
Bb Clarinet
penny whistle
2 Modular Synths...2600 and oddments
3 MIDI contollers
Casio CTK2100 keyboard
iPad
3 Kaoscillators...

Enough babbling.... :cry: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:
Barry
The man who survived mustard gas and pepper spray is now a seasoned veteran
http://www.ambientonline.org/
User avatar
annode
KVRAF
 
4910 posts since 28 Mar, 2003, from Location: Location

Postby annode; Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:24 am

So I ask everyone...think about what you have. Make a list like I've done....then ask. Just what else would you say you need desperately?

Then I ask you...'need to do what'?

So ask yourself...am I a collector? Do I buy plugs and apps for fun as a hobby? Do I want to find a sound that sets me apart from others and produce a virtual album?

If you chose the later, this get's very interesting.
"It`s difficult to work in a group when you`re omnipotent." Q
My SoundCloud
User avatar
robojam
KVRAF
 
21027 posts since 26 Jul, 2005, from Inside Schroedinger's Cat...or am I...

Postby robojam; Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:51 am

tapper mike wrote:Stevie Wonder has to have at least two of everything.

Probably because he says: "You know what I don't see in my studio..."

:hihi:
User avatar
Perimeter Sound
KVRian
 
1315 posts since 11 Oct, 2007

Postby Perimeter Sound; Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:57 am

There is enough, but enough changes. Ie = eventually your style or tastes change, and that e.q. that used be fine, now isn't, so you dump it and get a new one. I guess the "trick" is to know when you actually need something new, as opposed to just a new way to work or hear things, kind of like Mike said about spending more time mixing/composing than anything else. :)
Image
hibidy
KVRAF
 
41587 posts since 20 Dec, 2005

Postby hibidy; Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:02 am

Doug1978 wrote:
StateMedia wrote:Hmm. I'm having a think about what I have at my disposal, and it's made me wonder....just when is enough.....really enough.
...
So I ask everyone...think about what you have. Make a list like I've done....then ask. Just what else would you say you need desperately?

It would take me MONTHS if not a whole year to get through all I own in any sincere depth then what I know now. And that just feels so anti-productive. The scary thing is though....I'm not finished with things I desire...




To be honest, there's been 'enough' already of these hand-wringing threads on KVR in recent months.

If people have got a problem with how many products they've bought then sell some of them and quit worrying.
If you have a problem with how many more you could buy, then don't buy them.
And if you have no problem at all then just make some music.


Life's too short to worry about some frigging meaningless issues on KVR like these. Too much talk about bollocks and not enough action is where the real anti-productivity is.

So by all means everyone make your lists. But why not just make music with the products that you like and just sell the rest?


And FWIW, I have a perfect number of products and I wouldn't sell any of them.


Image
hibidy
KVRAF
 
41587 posts since 20 Dec, 2005

Postby hibidy; Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:20 am

when is enough "enough"? When taco taco burrito burrito girl says.
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