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Automathico Support

Talk about all things "KVR Developer Challenge" related.

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

SirSickSik
KVRist
 
38 posts since 16 Oct, 2010, from The netherlands

Postby SirSickSik; Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:16 pm Automathico Support

The automathico.zip is delivered with both manual explaining the insides and a visual diagram of interconnections, please consult these first if you have any wonderings about its workings.

I also would like to make a couple of other remarks.

Next to the automathico, I have dozens of other free plugins in my own thread on synthforum (see comments under automathico), which can be used in combination with automathico. Also in the comments, there is a sendspace-link to a 16-vst(i) zip containing some other of my latest plugins (trickshotV1.3 being my former DX12 idea, before I started on automathico).

About automathico itself, it might look as some complex machine, but if you try it out, you'll find out that I've tried to make things as simple as possible. Any combination will always do something (ok, as long as you don't put range to zero, multiplying the looping value by zero or adding nothing to the looping value, which would make it stay static...).

A simple rule is: the more complex you make the maths, the more complex the result will be. Not using the shaper, multiplying the X^? by 0 (double click), putting b*x to 1(double click, setting maths to off, you can use the +c knob to make a ramp-waveform with a set speed.

From there you can add modulations (shaper, maths, LFO, recorded knob automation) and turn around the melody to all sides.
As a human I say: nobis vivendum est!
As a musician I say: nobis musicum essendum est!
As a friend I say: nobis birram bibendum est!

SirSickSik
bob bobwood
KVRian
 
1434 posts since 24 Apr, 2010, from Nottingham

Postby bob bobwood; Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:10 pm

A-Z of Plugins, etc updated October 7th 2014
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V'ger
KVRAF
 
3920 posts since 15 Dec, 2009

Postby V'ger; Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:50 am

Thanks for your work, this is obviously clever stuff and I find MIDI generators can be very inspiring and useful.

It is however just a bit too difficult to understand and the same with the manual. In a way it's a bit typical of advanced programmers; overrating people's understanding.. ;)

For me, this could be the 5 pt app, but as it will take weeks or months and a lot of effort to understand it, I can't really judge before the voting deadline.

A video showing the very basic stuff in an understandable way would have been so useful. A graphic would also help, but the promised one is missing:
SirSickSik wrote:The automathico.zip is delivered with both manual explaining the insides and a visual diagram of interconnections

SirSickSik wrote:Next to the automathico, I have dozens of other free plugins in my own thread on synthforum (see comments under automathico)

Would love to check your other stuff, but don't know what the synthforum is and a search only shows a Dutch site, a link to this would be very useful.
SirSickSik
KVRist
 
38 posts since 16 Oct, 2010, from The netherlands

Postby SirSickSik; Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:14 am

no no no no nOOOOOOOOO freaking way...... :shock: :-o :shock: :o
I just typed a huge text , clicked submit and everything is gone.... :(
As a human I say: nobis vivendum est!
As a musician I say: nobis musicum essendum est!
As a friend I say: nobis birram bibendum est!

SirSickSik
SirSickSik
KVRist
 
38 posts since 16 Oct, 2010, from The netherlands

Postby SirSickSik; Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:15 am

As a human I say: nobis vivendum est!
As a musician I say: nobis musicum essendum est!
As a friend I say: nobis birram bibendum est!

SirSickSik
SirSickSik
KVRist
 
38 posts since 16 Oct, 2010, from The netherlands

Postby SirSickSik; Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:39 am

I really don't want to type everything again so I try to do it again, but then shorter...

To start up a clean sequence from scratch:

Do this for all sequencers (pitch, velocity, base, chord):

Set shaper-mix to 'off' (counterclockwise) to bypass shaper-part

double-click on all 4 knobs of the parabolic function (A*X^(3/2/4)+B*X+C) to reset them all. No value will be added and B is reset to 1 to let the value bypass this function normally.

Set sync-amount to the amount of steps you want your pattern to be. Pattern restarts after each sync.

Set starting value for sync. (your choice....)

Set Wrap-function to wrap (not reflect that is?)

Set math-select to bypass.

Set Offset fully counter-clockwise

Set Range to fully clockwise

Set Clockdivision to 1 (updates every clockpulse from main tempo)

Set wrap/reflect to wrap or reflect (your choice...)

For Pitch and velocity sequencers, to reset the feed-part:
Double-click offset and width of selected modulation-input (sets both to zero).

Set both math select to bypass/off.

Then go to the LFO parts:

Set all LFO-destinations to OFF and range fully counterclockwise.

4 Rhythmic part:
Set all values to 1 (all individual gate-lengths: 1/1, all individual clockdividers to 1, main tempo to 1/1, main clockdivider to 1/1.
You should now have the automathico triggering each beatcount.
Set chord/arp to change from single-note to chord mode.

Unclick the automatic-scale change so the sequence stays in the same key.

Don't forget to do all this for the pitch and velocity sequences, feeds and LFO's of sequencer B too! (button for this is at the top-left of the vst-screen)

You should now have the sequencers generate a static value and the display shouldn't be updating as there isn't a new, other value coming in.

The easiest, simplest calculation would be to use the +C knob. This just adds a static value to the loop. Each time the loop goes round, it becomes higher/lower with the amount of +C. This way simple ramp/saw forms can be made.

You might kind of take as a rule that small changes from the starting point make the most logically recognizable patterns. The bigger the changes, the more problem you'll have to recognize the flow in the melody.
As a human I say: nobis vivendum est!
As a musician I say: nobis musicum essendum est!
As a friend I say: nobis birram bibendum est!

SirSickSik
bob bobwood
KVRian
 
1434 posts since 24 Apr, 2010, from Nottingham

Postby bob bobwood; Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:34 am

SirSickSik wrote:no no no no nOOOOOOOOO freaking way...... :shock: :-o :shock: :o
I just typed a huge text , clicked submit and everything is gone.... :(

Yep, we've all been there ! In the kvr notes (somewhere), it does tell you to copy everything before you click on Submit. It is well worth making double sure - particularly with help files - by copying it to a text document and saving it for inclusion in future releases.
A-Z of Plugins, etc updated October 7th 2014
SirSickSik
KVRist
 
38 posts since 16 Oct, 2010, from The netherlands

Postby SirSickSik; Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:51 am

updated manual, also explaining how to set up sequences from static loop:

http://www.synthforum.nl/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=83872&d=1353520083
As a human I say: nobis vivendum est!
As a musician I say: nobis musicum essendum est!
As a friend I say: nobis birram bibendum est!

SirSickSik
SirSickSik
KVRist
 
38 posts since 16 Oct, 2010, from The netherlands

Postby SirSickSik; Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:04 am

The automatico had been reported crashing in usine and XT.
Thanks to the creator of synthedit we've found the responsible criminal. A buggy module that wasn't supposed to be in the project anyways, but remained hidden in a container in a corner.. a left-over from the first day of programming haha..

Well, you'ld say, bug fixed! upload it already!

just one tiny little detail...
as the competition closing days came I changed some things to the graphics and added a automation poly-knob recorder (up to 64 beats, record ANY knobmovement within the automathico, any knob or list, all together for all I care..). But then my computer broke down and I had to wait on a new one.. which came a week too late due to delivery-problems from the side of the selling company, and came in 5 days after the closing date.. in the meantime my old computer not capable of doing anything noteworthy.

Because of this, the automathico uploaded for the contest was the aaaaalmost, but not yet completely finished one.. I thought "well ok, too bad, better luck next time", but now I find out that the project of the uploaded automathico is accidentally overwritten by the later one (because of a crash I had to quickly save the changes made)

so to bug-fix the automathico, I'm kinda stuck with the tiny-bit better automathico.. I must admit, an 'all-knob' recorder IS quite refreshing in vst-land, at least, I don't know of any vst which makes use of it.. but in the end, I don't think automathico will have a chance in the battle anyways, next year I'll make a machine that simply says bleep.. or bliep.. but that would need an extra switch.. :wink:

so what to do? Am I allowed to upload this bugfix, although something new would be added (poly-knob automation record, next to the already available mono-knob record)?
As a human I say: nobis vivendum est!
As a musician I say: nobis musicum essendum est!
As a friend I say: nobis birram bibendum est!

SirSickSik
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Ichad.c
KVRian
 
689 posts since 8 Feb, 2012, from South - Africa

Postby Ichad.c; Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:16 am

Have to ask Ben about that one.
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V'ger
KVRAF
 
3920 posts since 15 Dec, 2009

Postby V'ger; Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:14 am

SirSickSik wrote:To start up a clean sequence from scratch:

Thanks for this explanation, just what I was looking for; the very basic listed in an easy way. I will play more with this in the coming days. Also thanks for the link to to your other plugins.
ThomasHelzle
KVRAF
 
2677 posts since 9 Dec, 2008, from Berlin

Postby ThomasHelzle; Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:29 am

Well, although I struggle with the interface, you got 5 points from me, since I find the basic idea the most interesting one in the whole contest. I love generative tools and yours creates some very usable and interesting output.
I think it would be worthwhile to add a selection of beginner presets that are commented in the docs. From a clean init patch getting more complex in something like 5 steps.

And I think it would be also worthwhile to invest some thought in how to make the interface more approachable/inviting ;-)

But congratulations to your entry and good luck!
I look forward to a non-crashing version.

Cheers,

Tom
Last edited by ThomasHelzle on Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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spacedad
KVRAF
 
4712 posts since 25 Apr, 2002, from the bottom of the barrel

Postby spacedad; Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:39 am

glad you found it!
looking fwd to the fix.
ThomasHelzle
KVRAF
 
2677 posts since 9 Dec, 2008, from Berlin

Postby ThomasHelzle; Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:27 am

Just wanted to elaborate a bit more about what I find confusing in the interface:

- Trying to follow your explanation above, 3/4 of the time I don't know which knobs you are referring to (without the docs, which I don't want to need to follow a tutorial and make basic sense of an interface).
- ATM I have no clue what values the knobs are at or where their neutral position is.
- Doubleclicking doesn't work reliable in Ableton Live / Windows 8. On some knobs it seems to do nothing at all.
- Some labels are very large, some are very small and since you use a condensed font, even the large ones are hard to read at some places (like for example the LFO dropdowns).

I think in this case the interface is one of the main deciding things that will turn users away from this tool, which is a shame. I love your idea.

More presets that show specific features would be great.
An init-patch would replace all that complex explanation above. ;-)

BTW. Sendspace is telling me: "Sorry, the free service is at full capacity."

Cheers,

Tom
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V'ger
KVRAF
 
3920 posts since 15 Dec, 2009

Postby V'ger; Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:58 am

Yes I agree, the explanations looked simple but trying to follow now on the plugin and I find ithe's close to impossible, I'm lost already at "sync-amount". Where is that?

Also the double-click to reset knobs doesn't work on all knobs.
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