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When do you use envelope shapers/transient designers?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

KVRAF
 
1584 posts since 22 Apr, 2011, from The House of Zaid

Postby @midnight; Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:56 pm

Ah_Dziz wrote:2. I use them quite often on anything in the sub bass region to reduce headroom issues.


How do you do that?
Has anybody ever really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
KVRAF
 
18917 posts since 4 Sep, 2001, from Melbourne Australia

Postby TheoM; Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:12 pm

I had a nasty attack on an acoustic guitar which was just TOO clicky to be audibly pleasing, and the only compressor i know if which dealt with it was the mpressor which i don't yet own. So i used logic's enveloper to take the edge off the attack. there was no noticeable change in dynamics to ruin the good parts, and the clicks were gone. There you go, there's a random use of a transient designer.

sonnox have an entire HD video about how their transient plugin can be used on guitars!
"Just call me shitload, cause I own a shitload of plugins!"
KVRian
 
1117 posts since 2 Jul, 2005

Postby Ah_Dziz; Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:25 pm

people often send me tracks to mix that have absurdly long decays on their very low basses and kicks which eat huge amounts of headroom (I mix lots of hip hop). A transient designer can pull those tails down to a reasonable level while sill leaving a good chest rattling attack which gives a much tighter bass which is key to me in the sub region. It will also leave enough of the tail to still sound powerful on a sound system with extended bass response. The cubase envelope shaper plugin is useful for this because it has a very easy to use transient length parameter that makes dialing in longer attacks (the place where the algorithm draws the line between attack and decay) for bass a breeze. Also some times it is the exact opposite issue and you need to soften the attack of a sub bass to make room for attacks in the more audible bass range that will translate on a wider range of systems.

Hope that makes sense. I'm a bit sleepy.
Don't F**K with Mr. Zero.
KVRAF
 
1584 posts since 22 Apr, 2011, from The House of Zaid

Postby @midnight; Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:40 pm

Ah_Dziz wrote:people often send me tracks to mix that have absurdly long decays on their very low basses and kicks which eat huge amounts of headroom (I mix lots of hip hop). A transient designer can pull those tails down to a reasonable level while sill leaving a good chest rattling attack which gives a much tighter bass which is key to me in the sub region. It will also leave enough of the tail to still sound powerful on a sound system with extended bass response. The cubase envelope shaper plugin is useful for this because it has a very easy to use transient length parameter that makes dialing in longer attacks (the place where the algorithm draws the line between attack and decay) for bass a breeze. Also some times it is the exact opposite issue and you need to soften the attack of a sub bass to make room for attacks in the more audible bass range that will translate on a wider range of systems.

Hope that makes sense. I'm a bit sleepy.


I gotcha man, that's similar to the way classic hip hop producers use the gate/expander on SSL boards right? Sort of using the expander to lower the volume of the decay on the drums.

I've been using the ADSR cell function in NI Battery to fill a similar need for me, as I use it to remove room sound from acoustic drum samples.
Has anybody ever really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
KVRian
 
1117 posts since 2 Jul, 2005

Postby Ah_Dziz; Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:55 pm

@midnight wrote:
Ah_Dziz wrote:people often send me tracks to mix that have absurdly long decays on their very low basses and kicks which eat huge amounts of headroom (I mix lots of hip hop). A transient designer can pull those tails down to a reasonable level while sill leaving a good chest rattling attack which gives a much tighter bass which is key to me in the sub region. It will also leave enough of the tail to still sound powerful on a sound system with extended bass response. The cubase envelope shaper plugin is useful for this because it has a very easy to use transient length parameter that makes dialing in longer attacks (the place where the algorithm draws the line between attack and decay) for bass a breeze. Also some times it is the exact opposite issue and you need to soften the attack of a sub bass to make room for attacks in the more audible bass range that will translate on a wider range of systems.

Hope that makes sense. I'm a bit sleepy.


I gotcha man, that's similar to the way classic hip hop producers use the gate/expander on SSL boards right? Sort of using the expander to lower the volume of the decay on the drums.

I've been using the ADSR cell function in NI Battery to fill a similar need for me, as I use it to remove room sound from acoustic drum samples.


I actually used an expander for these tasks for years and never even bothered to try a transient shaper until I was hired to do a high profile rap mix and only had access to the two track mix that the producer had made of the beat. I used a crossover to get the bass on its own but there was not enough dynamic range in the bass sound to properly trigger the expander. After trying various other things I dropped the cubase envelope plugin on there and was able to get things sounding good in about ten seconds. Since then whenever I have a particularly tricky dynamic issue I try out the envelope shaper and it has turned out quite useful.
Don't F**K with Mr. Zero.
Waaaaahhh
 
1291 posts since 29 Jul, 2001, from montreal, quebec,canada
 

Postby realmarco; Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:55 pm

ah man why people so sensitive , anyhoo yeah a transient shaper can be usefull, but if u just listen to the track all alone it might sound good but in a mix context it might have sonic drawback , to me they're problem fixer than replacement to normal processors.

in in the contexte of a mix the transients will sound weaker or over the top. much like all dynamic processors

im gonna work on my etiquette though
If your plugin is a Synth-edit/synth-maker creation, Say So.
If not Make a Mac version of your Plugins Please.

https://soundcloud.com/realmarco

...everyone is out to get me!!!!!!!
User avatar
KVRAF
 
2140 posts since 12 Nov, 2009

Postby cyphersuit; Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:09 am

IrionDaRonin wrote:I'm using Flux BitterSweet II for free.
Great plugin, i can tell.

Have a good day :)


got that one. it's one of the weaker ones, really. i much prefer sonar's transient shaper and the spl transient shaper (which is the king of those three by a mile)
Finally!
KVRAF
 
40189 posts since 20 Dec, 2005

Postby hibidy; Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:06 pm

cyphersuit wrote:
IrionDaRonin wrote:I'm using Flux BitterSweet II for free.
Great plugin, i can tell.

Have a good day :)


got that one. it's one of the weaker ones, really. i much prefer sonar's transient shaper and the spl transient shaper (which is the king of those three by a mile)


(chanting) "shoot out, shoot out, shoot out"

and then more chanting "do it do it do it do it"
Waaaaahhh
 
1291 posts since 29 Jul, 2001, from montreal, quebec,canada
 

Postby realmarco; Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:38 pm

hibidy wrote:
(chanting) "shoot out, shoot out, shoot out"

and then more chanting "do it do it do it do it"



...what ???
If your plugin is a Synth-edit/synth-maker creation, Say So.
If not Make a Mac version of your Plugins Please.

https://soundcloud.com/realmarco

...everyone is out to get me!!!!!!!
KVRAF
 
40189 posts since 20 Dec, 2005

Postby hibidy; Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:51 pm

When someone says another one is better and I don't have a way to judge for myself I want a shootout. I see I've found someone else that my humor has no positive effect on :cry:
Waaaaahhh
 
1291 posts since 29 Jul, 2001, from montreal, quebec,canada
 

Postby realmarco; Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:13 pm

hibidy wrote:When someone says another one is better and I don't have a way to judge for myself I want a shootout. I see I've found someone else that my humor has no positive effect on :cry:


...yeah its a tough room
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg
If your plugin is a Synth-edit/synth-maker creation, Say So.
If not Make a Mac version of your Plugins Please.

https://soundcloud.com/realmarco

...everyone is out to get me!!!!!!!
KVRAF
 
5549 posts since 4 May, 2007, from Mars Colony

Postby A.M. Gold; Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:45 pm

hibidy wrote:When someone says another one is better and I don't have a way to judge for myself I want a shootout. I see I've found someone else that my humor has no positive effect on :cry:
Yea, I agree, the field is crowded enough now for a shootout, but...

Some of the TD's discussed here are compliments to DAW's you don't have. You can demo the DCAM one, the one I mentioned is free, you can demo the Schwa one. And you can demo the basic equivalent of the UAD one because it should be very close to the one you can DL from Plug-In Alliance. What does that leave?
"You don’t expect much beyond a gaping, misspelled void when you stare into the cold dark place that is Internet comments."

---Salon on internet trolls attacking Cleveland kidnapping victim Amanda Berry
KVRAF
 
40189 posts since 20 Dec, 2005

Postby hibidy; Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:03 pm

realmarco wrote:
hibidy wrote:When someone says another one is better and I don't have a way to judge for myself I want a shootout. I see I've found someone else that my humor has no positive effect on :cry:


...yeah its a tough room
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg


cheeky! I love it!
KVRAF
 
40189 posts since 20 Dec, 2005

Postby hibidy; Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:07 pm

A.M. Gold wrote:
hibidy wrote:When someone says another one is better and I don't have a way to judge for myself I want a shootout. I see I've found someone else that my humor has no positive effect on :cry:
Yea, I agree, the field is crowded enough now for a shootout, but...

Some of the TD's discussed here are compliments to DAW's you don't have. You can demo the DCAM one, the one I mentioned is free, you can demo the Schwa one. And you can demo the basic equivalent of the UAD one because it should be very close to the one you can DL from Plug-In Alliance. What does that leave?


I have sonar. I have access to that, but the SPL isn't something I've really thought about. I dunno, I just got the free update to the NI one and realize I might be missing on a whole world :hihi:
KVRAF
 
1584 posts since 22 Apr, 2011, from The House of Zaid

Postby @midnight; Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:52 am

Well the DCAM one sucks on piano, I can you tell much

Sounded like horribly popping and clipping artifacts, switched over to the one in Alloy and it worked a treat

Maybe the dcam one sounds good for drums but for piano it was horrible
Has anybody ever really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
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