JamOrigin wrote:Our new polyphonic MIDI Guitar plugin will get .tun support soon, so that synths no longer need to support it to work with guitars.
List of Vsti's that support Tun/scala files for Microtonal
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5175 posts since 29 Apr, 2006
-
- KVRAF
- 35276 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
Of course the original one to support tun was Anamark (Marc invented the format for Anamark)
Pity there isn't a Mac version of it
Pity there isn't a Mac version of it
-
- KVRist
- 318 posts since 25 Sep, 2007
Is Harmless capable of microtuning? Please let me know how to utilize it. I think Harmor is capable of microtuning though.
-
- KVRian
- 833 posts since 29 Jul, 2006
Bumping old thread to see if there are more / new plugins that support microtuning! I've become obsessed with nonstandard tunings... synths I have right now that support it are Absynth, Synthmaster (could use some improvement in this area), Aalto and Reaktor (using macros from the user library).
Others I've looked at:
Alchemy - don't like the additional latency
Urs stuff - thinking about plonking down the $$ for Zebra.
Z3TA+ 2 - didn't interpret a 7 note equal temperament .scl properly - very disappointing!
Others I've looked at:
Alchemy - don't like the additional latency
Urs stuff - thinking about plonking down the $$ for Zebra.
Z3TA+ 2 - didn't interpret a 7 note equal temperament .scl properly - very disappointing!
-
- KVRian
- 983 posts since 9 Feb, 2013 from dallas tx
I would think many people would want to use scala as a way to transpose to 432hz tuning for A instead of 440. Anyone do this yet.
-
- KVRAF
- 35276 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
Pianoteq probably has amongst the best support for micro tuning as it properly supports keyboard mapping as well as scl itself (you really need both to get the best from alternate tunings)~Pd~ wrote:Bumping old thread to see if there are more / new plugins that support microtuning! I've become obsessed with nonstandard tunings... synths I have right now that support it are Absynth, Synthmaster (could use some improvement in this area), Aalto and Reaktor (using macros from the user library).
Others I've looked at:
Alchemy - don't like the additional latency
Urs stuff - thinking about plonking down the $$ for Zebra.
Z3TA+ 2 - didn't interpret a 7 note equal temperament .scl properly - very disappointing!
-
- KVRian
- 833 posts since 29 Jul, 2006
Most instruments have a master fine pitch to accomplish stuff like that, no? The ratios between the notes would remain the same (12-TET). Scala is more for changing the relationships between notes in the scale, or dividing the octave into a different number of intervals.yessongs wrote:I would think many people would want to use scala as a way to transpose to 432hz tuning for A instead of 440. Anyone do this yet.
-
- KVRian
- 1339 posts since 25 Sep, 2011 from New York
Albino used to support Tun files too, i mean it still does with the latest version too, sadly Blue does not.
Reality is a Condition due to Lack of Weed!
-
- KVRian
- 833 posts since 29 Jul, 2006
From my experiments with various instruments I like an implementation that interprets 1/1 as middle C, and the rest of the pitches should be arranged around that. Then most instruments have master tuning options to fine-tune that, no pun intended.aMUSEd wrote:Pianoteq probably has amongst the best support for micro tuning as it properly supports keyboard mapping as well as scl itself (you really need both to get the best from alternate tunings)
I guess the keyboard mapping would be useful if you were working with a score where the composer had certain very specific intentions. I'm more of an explorer.
-
- KVRAF
- 2357 posts since 24 Nov, 2012
too lazy to check all the post but http://www.xen-arts.com/
-
- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
Vienna Instruments Pro will deal with any 12-note scala and its interface lets you set root pitch. so if you have less than you can manipulate it by duplicates in the row, but more than 12 doesn't happen. ratios or cents. Making a .scl is a text file written properly with that extension, that's all it is.
-
- KVRian
- 833 posts since 29 Jul, 2006
I just found out that Synthmaster works 100% perfectly for microtunings as long as you give it the kind of .scl file that usually goes along with a .kbm keyboard map - one where every MIDI note from 0 to 127 is specified. This is sort of the way Absynth tunings work with .gly file imports for scales, and Zebra with .tun files.
Will post some Synthmaster-optimized .scl files shortly.
Will post some Synthmaster-optimized .scl files shortly.
-
- KVRist
- 396 posts since 29 Aug, 2006 from Eta Carinae
This is off-topic, but from the questions asked, I thought it may be appropriate.
A long time ago, probably in the 1980's, I became interested in non-standard tunings and I made a study of them.
I made a series of notes which I later transcribed to a computer text file that was full of interesting tidbits.
I will try to decipher those notes and amplify the thought behind them.
My goal was to be able to make a scale with any number of notes per octave and any interval between notes. I imagined I would use some math constants like pi, e, or phi, etc., thinking naively that these would sound good.
I started with these definitions and some remedial algebra:
Next I made a list of all the commonly named intervals as well as some numerology:
Then I went on to show how a scale could be made of equal intervals. When the next interval exceeds an octave, drop down an octave. Keep on adding intervals until you get enough notes or the new intervals are too close to older intervals.
Here are example scales made of intervals of fifths and fourths:
And finally, a way to express irrational numbers as simple fractions. The method is to form a simple continued fraction and quit when the next iteration falls below the 'just noticeable difference' audibly:
I hope this is useful to someone, I completely forgot I had this saved away in my computer attic.
Nowadays when I compose I don't use pitch or meter for much any more - its all noise to me.
A long time ago, probably in the 1980's, I became interested in non-standard tunings and I made a study of them.
I made a series of notes which I later transcribed to a computer text file that was full of interesting tidbits.
I will try to decipher those notes and amplify the thought behind them.
My goal was to be able to make a scale with any number of notes per octave and any interval between notes. I imagined I would use some math constants like pi, e, or phi, etc., thinking naively that these would sound good.
I started with these definitions and some remedial algebra:
Code: Select all
1 cent = 2**(1/1200) = 1.000577789507 ~= 1667/1666, or better, 1731/1730
an interval of c cents: from frequency f1 to f2 =
f1/f2 = 2 ** (c/1200)
the interval f1:f2 = 2 (1200 cents) = 1 octave
To find the number of cents in an interval f1:f2 = R
2**(c/1200) = R
therefore, c = 1200 log R/log 2 =
c(R) = 3986.313713865 log R
c(f1:f2) = 3986.313713865 log (f1/f2)
= 3986.313713865 log f1 - 3986.313713865 log f2
= c(f1) - c(f2)
If a scale is equally tempered, and contains n tones per octave,
then the interval from note to note is
interval(n) = 1200/n
Note: the ear can discern about 3.459 cents: (@500 Hz one can
discern 1 Hz difference). (depends on freq., loudness, etc.)
Note: if a**n = b
then n = log b/log a
Savart:
s(R) = 1000 log R = 3.986 c(R)
1 savart = 3.986 cents ~= 436/435 ~= just noticeable difference
Code: Select all
Interval name interval value cents in interval
--------------- --------------- -----------------
unison 1:1 0.000
jnd 501:500 3.459 just noticeable difference
savart ~436:435 3.986
a skilled player can stretch a note on an instrument
by as much as 20 cents to be in tune with other instruments
syntonic comma 80:81 21.506
Pythagorean comma 531441:524288 23.460 3**12/2**19
diesis 128:125 41.059
smaller chromatic semitone
25:24 70.672
Pythagorean diatonic semitone = limma
256:243 90.225 2**8/3**5
larger chromatic semitone (small limma)
135:128 92.179
minor second 18:17 98.955
semitone 16:15 111.731
Pythagorean chromatic semitone
2187:2048 113.685 3**7/2**11
meantone semitone 8:(5*fourth_root(5)) 117.108
13:12 138.573
12:11 150.637
11:10 165.004
65536:59049 180.450
minor tone 10:9 182.404
meantone whole tone sqrt(5):2 193.157
449:400 200.059
major tone (Pythagorean whole tone) ---
9:8 203.910 3**2/2**3 (two fifths)
256:225 223.462 (two semitones)
8:7 231.174
pi:e 250.561 3.14159../2.71828...
7:6 266.871
13:11 289.210
32:27 294.135
minor third 6:5 315.641
19683:16384 317.595
11:9 347.408
100:81 364.807 (two minor tones)
8192:6561 384.360
major third 5:4 386.314
81:64 407.820 (two major tones)
9:7 435.084
13:10 454.214
perfect fourth 4:3 498.045
11:8 551.318
7:5 582.512
1024:729 588.270
augmented fourth 45:32 590.224
(also called a tritone = two major tones + 1 minor tone)
diminished fifth 64:45 609.777
729:512 611.730
10:7 617.488
36:25 631.283 (two minor thirds)
13:9 636.618
262144:177147 678.495
perfect fifth 3:2 701.955
25:16 772.628 (two major thirds)
11:7 782.492
128:81 792.180
minor sixth 8:5 813.686
6561:4096 815.640
phi:1 833.090 phi = 1.618033988749
13:8 840.528
32768:19683 882.405
major sixth 5:3 884.359
27:16 905.865
12:7 933.129
harmonic minor seventh 7:4 968.826
grave minor seventh 16:9 996.090 (two perfect fourths)
minor seventh 9:5 1017.596
59049:32768 1019.550
11:6 1049.363
13:7 1071.702
4096:2187 1086.315
major seventh 15:8 1088.269
243:128 1109.775
1048576:531441 1176.540
octave 2:1 1200.000
Here are example scales made of intervals of fifths and fourths:
Code: Select all
Various octave generations:
Intervals of fifths cents
------------------------ ---
3 : 2 = 702
9 : 8 = 204
27 : 16 = 906
81 : 64 = 408
243 : 128 = 1110
729 : 512 = 612
2187 : 2048 = 114
6561 : 4096 = 816
19683 : 16384 = 318
59049 : 32768 = 1020
177147 : 131072 = 522
531441 : 524288 = 23.46 (x) <- stop here
1594323 : 1048576 = 725 (x)
---------------------------------------------------------
Last results, sorted:
2187 : 2048 = 114 c+
9 : 8 = 204 d
19683 : 16384 = 318 d+
81 : 64 = 408 e
177147 : 131072 = 522 f
729 : 512 = 612 f+
3 : 2 = 702 g
6561 : 4096 = 816 g+
27 : 16 = 906 a
59049 : 32768 = 1020 a+
243 : 128 = 1110 b
----------------------------------------------------
Intervals of fourths cents
-------------------- -----
4:3 498.045
16:9 996.090
64:27 -> 32:27 294.135
128:81 792.180
512:243 -> 256:243 90.225
1024:729 588.270
4096:2187 1086.315
16384:6561 -> 8192:6561 384.360
32768:19683 882.405
131072:59049 -> 65536:59049 180.450
262144:177147 678.495
1048576:531441 1176.540 <- stop here
---------------------------------------------------------
Last results, sorted:
256:243 90.225
65536:59049 180.450
32:27 294.135
8192:6561 384.360
4:3 498.045
1024:729 588.270
262144:177147 678.495
128:81 792.180
32768:19683 882.405
16:9 996.090
4096:2187 1086.315
1048576:531441 1176.540
Code: Select all
Sometimes a decimal or large-numbered fraction is to be expressed as
an approximation to a small-numbered fraction:
Method of continued fractions to express a decimal number as
a fraction of suitable accuracy:
example: 1.265625
1.265625 = 1 + 265625/1000000 =
1 + 1/(1000000/265625) =
1 + 1/(3 + 203125/265625) =
1 + 1/(3 + 1/(265625/203125)) =
1 + 1/(3 + 1/(1 + 62500/203125)) =
1 + 1/(3 + 1/(1 + 4/13)) =
1 + 1/(3 + 1/(1 + 1/(13/4))) =
1 + 1/(3 + 1/(1 + 1/(3 + 1/4)))
first approx: 1 + 1/3 = 4:3 = 1.3333.. = 498 cents
second: 1 + 1/(3+1) = 5:4 = 1.25 = 386 cents
third: 1 + 1/(3 + 1/(1+1/3) = 1 + 4/15 = 19:15 = 1.2666 = 409 cents
fourth: complete term 81:64 = 1.265625 = 408 cents
Since there is no discernable different between 408 and 409 cents,
to the ear 81:64 = 19:15.
Nowadays when I compose I don't use pitch or meter for much any more - its all noise to me.
Jim Hurley - experimental music
Windows 10 Pro (20H2 19042.662); i9-9900K@5.1GHz;
Cakewalk; Adam Audio A8X; Axiom 61
Windows 10 Pro (20H2 19042.662); i9-9900K@5.1GHz;
Cakewalk; Adam Audio A8X; Axiom 61
-
- KVRian
- 833 posts since 29 Jul, 2006
Interesting stuff, Jim, thanks for the info. I'm keen on exploring algorithmically generated scales like the fifths idea. Have you ever worked with Lucy tunings, where the intervals are calculated based on Pi?
I'm still thinking in terms of meter and tonality, haven't gone completely zen yet.
I'm still thinking in terms of meter and tonality, haven't gone completely zen yet.
-
- KVRian
- 1339 posts since 25 Sep, 2011 from New York
Here is some Microtuned stuff that i play live:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYhvTKwXULU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYhvTKwXULU
Reality is a Condition due to Lack of Weed!
