Calling all KVR lawyers, pro or amateur, about license transfer within EU
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- KVRAF
- 2367 posts since 17 Apr, 2004
FYI Ben just updated the market place rules to cover this issue.
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 3946 posts since 25 Jan, 2009
Thanks for the info, I will share it here:sjm wrote:FYI Ben just updated the market place rules to cover this issue.
However does this mean KVR will not prevent such sales attempt?Important note regarding sales in the EU
According to a 2012 judgement by the Court of Justice of the European Union: "An author of software cannot oppose the resale of his 'used' licences allowing the use of his programs downloaded from the internet".
An official press release / summary is available here (PDF)
This states "even if the licence agreement prohibits a further transfer, the rightholder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy."
We are not in the legal profession here at KVR, but with this information you can decide what to do.
If you wish to sell something that was considered unsellable before this judgement and the "author of software" hasn't (yet?) changed their policy, we ask that you make it clear in your sale post that there is the potential that the sale / transfer process may not go smoothly (and make it clear why).
In any event, we are in no position to arbitrate between the seller, the "author of software" and / or the buyer.
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- KVRAF
- 2193 posts since 25 Dec, 2005
i repost some words i wrote on the market place.
you don't need to be a lawyer to understand some simple facts,although it doesn't hurt to know that law is different in every country in the world and might not be applied generally.
edit:
it seems that image line is a belgium based company (if i'm right).
therefore il must change the eula but it is not legal to sell an account!
edit,wrote curt instead of court which is somebody else.
you don't need to be a lawyer to understand some simple facts,although it doesn't hurt to know that law is different in every country in the world and might not be applied generally.
it's a european law and it is valid for european countrys and therefore companys.
is there a image line office in europe?
if not,why should the law be applied in the usa as well?
if you download content form a site from usa there is no reason why a european law should be applied until you send a bunch of lawyers to usa and bring it to the court in the usa.
i think ben's decision might confuse people about jurisdiction.
imo,it is not legal to sell an account,just the software which you're not able to sell at the moment, until image line speaks a official word about it and change the eula (which is the us law)..
edit:
it seems that image line is a belgium based company (if i'm right).
therefore il must change the eula but it is not legal to sell an account!
edit,wrote curt instead of court which is somebody else.
Last edited by t3toooo on Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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tony tony chopper tony tony chopper https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3103
- KVRAF
- 3561 posts since 20 Jun, 2002
you don't need to be a lawyer to make the difference between a judgement & a lawyou don't need to be a lawyer to understand some simple facts
DOLPH WILL PWNZ0R J00r LAWZ!!!!
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- KVRAF
- 2193 posts since 25 Dec, 2005
yes,true,is it even a law? no it was a judgement of a court,a sentence (if my english is correct).tony tony chopper wrote:you don't need to be a lawyer to make the difference between a judgement & a lawyou don't need to be a lawyer to understand some simple facts
although,the european court is the highest instance of a court in europe so there are chances this sentence will become a law sooner or later.
it's not a suburb court.
- KVRAF
- 2488 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from Sydney, Australia
As tony pointed out several times by now, it will have a MUCH GREATER impact than just the ridiculous small audio industry.
Good luck to Apple Europe dealing with this. The popcorn industry will be a winner in this until this law comes into place.
Good luck to Apple Europe dealing with this. The popcorn industry will be a winner in this until this law comes into place.
Cowbells!
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- KVRAF
- 2367 posts since 17 Apr, 2004
The recent judgement was based on a law that's about 20 years old IIRC. Of course there's a law, you don't pull judgements out of thin air.t3toooo wrote:yes,true,is it even a law? no it was a judgement of a court,a sentence (if my english is correct)
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- Banned
- 870 posts since 26 Sep, 2008
Of course you can offer them on the marketplace but what happens after you've sold one of your IL plugins to me?IncarnateX wrote:Hink please understand that I do not own FL studio but only a bunch of VSTis and I am not putting anything for sale until I am sure myself tha it is all right.
It doesn't matter if it's allowed or not, if IL doesn't provides a transfer system i can't use "your" plugins.
Indeed. You'll buy no software anymore, you'll only be able to rent it. The same goes for music (streaming instead of buying a license).dalor wrote:As tony pointed out several times by now, it will have a MUCH GREATER impact than just the ridiculous small audio industry.
CLOSING SALE! My samplepacks: Vintage House Stabs | Deep House Chords + Volume 2 | House Piano Chords
- KVRAF
- 2488 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from Sydney, Australia
Yep! And ALL intellectual property is accessible from the license holders "cloud" only. Pay per access. No more downloads and storing of external data other than the one you have created yourself on DRM encrypted "C/R hard drives" and memory.Wildfunk wrote:Indeed. You'll buy no software anymore, you'll only be able to rent it. The same goes for music (streaming instead of buying a license).dalor wrote:As tony pointed out several times by now, it will have a MUCH GREATER impact than just the ridiculous small audio industry.
Edit: Fixed Quoting
Last edited by dalor on Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
Cowbells!
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 3946 posts since 25 Jan, 2009
Wildfunk wrote:Of course you can offer them on the marketplace but what happens after you've sold one of your IL plugins to me?).
Then I would give you my password to my account, where you would be able to change the user info etc. and download whatever future updates. The court ruling in question is about reselling " licenses " not the product itself.
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 3946 posts since 25 Jan, 2009
fixed
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 3946 posts since 25 Jan, 2009
And just to remind all: You are free to claim anything here: "You can't do this" , "You can do that" , "you can do this but not do that" but unless you are a lawyer as called for and is able to ground your statements in actual arguments (look up the word) either based on existing laws or cases of precedence, it is utterly worthless to me as the OP. Actually the best advice so far is from an Image Line employee, namely to contact the ombudsman of my country , so that is what I will do now. It will probably take some time before I get an answer but I will return to this thread when I do if it hasn't been locked and sealed.
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- Banned
- 870 posts since 26 Sep, 2008
But this only works if you sell *all* your licenses to 1 person.IncarnateX wrote:Then I would give you my password to my account, where you would be able to change the user info etc. and download whatever future updates.
CLOSING SALE! My samplepacks: Vintage House Stabs | Deep House Chords + Volume 2 | House Piano Chords
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 3946 posts since 25 Jan, 2009
Yes.Wildfunk wrote:But this only works if you sell *all* your licenses to 1 person.IncarnateX wrote:Then I would give you my password to my account, where you would be able to change the user info etc. and download whatever future updates.