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Calling all KVR lawyers, pro or amateur, about license transfer within EU

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

sjm
KVRian
 
583 posts since 17 Apr, 2004

Postby sjm; Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:36 am

FYI Ben just updated the market place rules to cover this issue.
User avatar
IncarnateX
KVRAF
 
1790 posts since 25 Jan, 2009

Postby IncarnateX; Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:32 am

sjm wrote:FYI Ben just updated the market place rules to cover this issue.


Thanks for the info, I will share it here:

Important note regarding sales in the EU

According to a 2012 judgement by the Court of Justice of the European Union: "An author of software cannot oppose the resale of his 'used' licences allowing the use of his programs downloaded from the internet".

An official press release / summary is available here (PDF)

This states "even if the licence agreement prohibits a further transfer, the rightholder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy."

We are not in the legal profession here at KVR, but with this information you can decide what to do.

If you wish to sell something that was considered unsellable before this judgement and the "author of software" hasn't (yet?) changed their policy, we ask that you make it clear in your sale post that there is the potential that the sale / transfer process may not go smoothly (and make it clear why).

In any event, we are in no position to arbitrate between the seller, the "author of software" and / or the buyer.


However does this mean KVR will not prevent such sales attempt?
t3toooo
KVRian
 
1493 posts since 24 Dec, 2005

Postby t3toooo; Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:31 pm

i repost some words i wrote on the market place.

you don't need to be a lawyer to understand some simple facts,although it doesn't hurt to know that law is different in every country in the world and might not be applied generally.

it's a european law and it is valid for european countrys and therefore companys.
is there a image line office in europe?

if not,why should the law be applied in the usa as well?


if you download content form a site from usa there is no reason why a european law should be applied until you send a bunch of lawyers to usa and bring it to the court in the usa.


i think ben's decision might confuse people about jurisdiction.

imo,it is not legal to sell an account,just the software which you're not able to sell at the moment, until image line speaks a official word about it and change the eula (which is the us law)..



edit:

it seems that image line is a belgium based company (if i'm right).


therefore il must change the eula but it is not legal to sell an account!


edit,wrote curt instead of court which is somebody else. :D
Last edited by t3toooo on Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tony tony chopper
KVRAF
 
3437 posts since 19 Jun, 2002

Postby tony tony chopper; Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:28 pm

you don't need to be a lawyer to understand some simple facts


you don't need to be a lawyer to make the difference between a judgement & a law
DOLPH WILL PWNZ0R J00r LAWZ!!!!
t3toooo
KVRian
 
1493 posts since 24 Dec, 2005

Postby t3toooo; Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:52 pm

tony tony chopper wrote:
you don't need to be a lawyer to understand some simple facts


you don't need to be a lawyer to make the difference between a judgement & a law


yes,true,is it even a law? no it was a judgement of a court,a sentence (if my english is correct).

although,the european court is the highest instance of a court in europe so there are chances this sentence will become a law sooner or later.
it's not a suburb court. :hihi:
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dalor
KVRAF
 
2506 posts since 1 Dec, 2004, from Sydney, Australia

Postby dalor; Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:16 pm

As tony pointed out several times by now, it will have a MUCH GREATER impact than just the ridiculous small audio industry.

Good luck to Apple Europe dealing with this. The popcorn industry will be a winner in this until this law comes into place.
Cowbells!
sjm
KVRian
 
583 posts since 17 Apr, 2004

Postby sjm; Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:32 pm

t3toooo wrote:yes,true,is it even a law? no it was a judgement of a court,a sentence (if my english is correct)


The recent judgement was based on a law that's about 20 years old IIRC. Of course there's a law, you don't pull judgements out of thin air.
Wildfunk
KVRian
 
715 posts since 26 Sep, 2008

Postby Wildfunk; Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:54 pm

IncarnateX wrote:Hink please understand that I do not own FL studio but only a bunch of VSTis and I am not putting anything for sale until I am sure myself tha it is all right.

Of course you can offer them on the marketplace but what happens after you've sold one of your IL plugins to me?

It doesn't matter if it's allowed or not, if IL doesn't provides a transfer system i can't use "your" plugins.

dalor wrote:As tony pointed out several times by now, it will have a MUCH GREATER impact than just the ridiculous small audio industry.

Indeed. You'll buy no software anymore, you'll only be able to rent it. The same goes for music (streaming instead of buying a license).
User avatar
dalor
KVRAF
 
2506 posts since 1 Dec, 2004, from Sydney, Australia

Postby dalor; Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:07 pm

Wildfunk wrote:
dalor wrote:As tony pointed out several times by now, it will have a MUCH GREATER impact than just the ridiculous small audio industry.

Indeed. You'll buy no software anymore, you'll only be able to rent it. The same goes for music (streaming instead of buying a license).
Yep! And ALL intellectual property is accessible from the license holders "cloud" only. Pay per access. No more downloads and storing of external data other than the one you have created yourself on DRM encrypted "C/R hard drives" and memory.

Edit: Fixed Quoting
Last edited by dalor on Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Cowbells!
User avatar
IncarnateX
KVRAF
 
1790 posts since 25 Jan, 2009

Postby IncarnateX; Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:14 pm

Wildfunk wrote:Of course you can offer them on the marketplace but what happens after you've sold one of your IL plugins to me?).



Then I would give you my password to my account, where you would be able to change the user info etc. and download whatever future updates. The court ruling in question is about reselling " licenses " not the product itself.
User avatar
IncarnateX
KVRAF
 
1790 posts since 25 Jan, 2009

Postby IncarnateX; Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:19 pm

fixed
User avatar
IncarnateX
KVRAF
 
1790 posts since 25 Jan, 2009

Postby IncarnateX; Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:32 pm

And just to remind all: You are free to claim anything here: "You can't do this" , "You can do that" , "you can do this but not do that" but unless you are a lawyer as called for and is able to ground your statements in actual arguments (look up the word) either based on existing laws or cases of precedence, it is utterly worthless to me as the OP. Actually the best advice so far is from an Image Line employee, namely to contact the ombudsman of my country , so that is what I will do now. It will probably take some time before I get an answer but I will return to this thread when I do if it hasn't been locked and sealed.
Wildfunk
KVRian
 
715 posts since 26 Sep, 2008

Postby Wildfunk; Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:37 am

IncarnateX wrote:Then I would give you my password to my account, where you would be able to change the user info etc. and download whatever future updates.


But this only works if you sell *all* your licenses to 1 person.
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IncarnateX
KVRAF
 
1790 posts since 25 Jan, 2009

Postby IncarnateX; Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:44 am

Wildfunk wrote:
IncarnateX wrote:Then I would give you my password to my account, where you would be able to change the user info etc. and download whatever future updates.


But this only works if you sell *all* your licenses to 1 person.


Yes.
Meffy
Skunk Mod
 
20423 posts since 10 Jun, 2004, from Pony Pasture

Postby Meffy; Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:34 am

Locked at OP's request. If more information becomes available I or another mod will unlock the thread.
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