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Where is Brad?

Official support for: cantabilesoftware.com

Moderator: bradr

TiUser
KVRAF
 
2308 posts since 13 Apr, 2008, from Germany

Postby TiUser; Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:28 pm

humphrey wrote:Hi TiUser,
just to clearify: I see it as the customer/user (and not as a developer, tech freak,...) and my needs in the aspect "samplers" are just:


I just want to throw in a comment. I understand your decision - as a pro you depend on your setup and that should be as simple and as reliable as possible.

On the other hand unless musicians ask for better technology and leave the stuff that's inconvenient (especially for performance) nothing will change.

Korg has shown with Kronos what is possible on pc hardware - and using SSD brings some comfort back we had in the past with sound extension cards - just plug in and play. What could be better?
Best regards, TiUser
...and keep on jamming...
humphrey
KVRist
 
165 posts since 11 Sep, 2004, from Germany

Postby humphrey; Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:14 pm

Yep, I agree to everything but the assumption I'd be a pro. I'm just an amateur musician as many here. But to be on stage with a pc rebooting is as embarrassing for an amateur as for a pro... :wink:

regards, humphrey
C7.5, Forte3.0, Cantabile, i7 4770k
pinkcanaru
KVRist
 
193 posts since 6 Dec, 2005

Postby pinkcanaru; Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:21 pm

As it stands now, you can load any sampler to the gills and have it NOT load entire bank when changing subsessions. That's equivalent to locking samples in memory, and that's exactly what I do live. My scene changes are fast.

If you are using SSD drives then you can reduce initial load time accordingly, and Forte is just as subject to reload the entire shebang as Cantabile is should you need to reboot it. So, what's the difference, especially as all modern respectable samplers and some notable romplers stream anyway?

The drawback with Cantabile is that you must use subsessions from the same session in order to make this work absolutely seamlessly, and that's exactly what I do.
Everything is in ONE master Session and it's the Setlist which determines which of those subessions are actually used.

I'm using those Seagate hybrid SSD drives and, although not as fast as pure SSD,I can get up and running PDQ, but this has nothing to do with Cantabile, per se. It's the ground work - the approach - which makes Cantabile as fast as anything, or super slow.

The fact is, as we all agree I think, there are certain areas of Cantabile's operation which need too much geek input, and the housekeeping can be a real DOG to handle - but I'm not sure, once the investment is made, exactly what's missing that would compromise live, fast, performance. Because that's exactly what I do get.

PC
TiUser
KVRAF
 
2308 posts since 13 Apr, 2008, from Germany

Postby TiUser; Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:19 am

humphrey wrote:... but the assumption I'd be a pro. I'm just an amateur musician...

:wink: ok. But conclusion does not change - on stage things need to work...

I personally thing especially non pros even need better gear - as they can not invest the same time to make things work like "real" pros probably can if there is a need.
Last edited by TiUser on Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Best regards, TiUser
...and keep on jamming...
TiUser
KVRAF
 
2308 posts since 13 Apr, 2008, from Germany

Postby TiUser; Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:42 am

pinkcanaru wrote:...The fact is, as we all agree I think, there are certain areas of Cantabile's operation which need too much geek input, and the housekeeping can be a real DOG to handle - but I'm not sure, once the investment is made, exactly what's missing that would compromise live, fast, performance. Because that's exactly what I do get. PC

Well said.

I admit I personally have two hearts in my chest... One is a geek (and developer)... but the other is a user that wants things to operate with minimum effort, maximum comfort and reliability (and thats why I started some development at all and why I always struggle with my own stuff...) as I think ease of operation is what finally counts.

Beware, I do not speak of simple stupid operation that prevents you from doing what you want - even if I think simpler structures covering the usual needs can make things often a lot easier.

If things get too fuzzy noone will finally practically take the effort.

I admit all this has not directly to do with Cantabile - true. But it has to do with what we all interested in, better live music tools.
Best regards, TiUser
...and keep on jamming...
humphrey
KVRist
 
165 posts since 11 Sep, 2004, from Germany

Postby humphrey; Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:29 pm

pinkcanaru wrote:As it stands now, you can load any sampler to the gills and have it NOT load entire bank when changing subsessions. That's equivalent to locking samples in memory, and that's exactly what I do live. My scene changes are fast.

If you are using SSD drives then you can reduce initial load time accordingly, and Forte is just as subject to reload the entire shebang as Cantabile is should you need to reboot it. So, what's the difference, especially as all modern respectable samplers and some notable romplers stream anyway?

The drawback with Cantabile is that you must use subsessions from the same session in order to make this work absolutely seamlessly, and that's exactly what I do.
Everything is in ONE master Session and it's the Setlist which determines which of those subessions are actually used.

I'm using those Seagate hybrid SSD drives and, although not as fast as pure SSD,I can get up and running PDQ, but this has nothing to do with Cantabile, per se. It's the ground work - the approach - which makes Cantabile as fast as anything, or super slow.

The fact is, as we all agree I think, there are certain areas of Cantabile's operation which need too much geek input, and the housekeeping can be a real DOG to handle - but I'm not sure, once the investment is made, exactly what's missing that would compromise live, fast, performance. Because that's exactly what I do get.

PC


Hi pinkcanaru,

to cut a long story short: things can simply be translated from cantabile to forte and back to find a corresponding scenario in cantabile:

cantabile session <=> forte rack
cantabile subsession <=> scene in forte
cantabile entire banks <=> decision to reload (or not) a plugin on scene change (inclding samples!) in forte Scene Commands

I only use SSDs in my live PC (means no HDDs) and I think I'm aware of the pros and cons and the strategies to handle a sampler and I agree: all things I do in forte can also be done in cantabile.

The only problem: midi routing and trigger events (for program changes inside cantabile) are very poor supported in subsessions (I leave away the aspect of audio routing here as it is not in the focus).

I know in general this all can be handeled by creating lots of midi routings and trigger events and activating / deactivating them depending on what I need for a song. I simply don't want to:

the solution in forte (you know it's just the same as in cantabile in the background but shows up in the userinterface as a simple matrix) is much more comfortable for me, supports my workflow and gives me a good feeling on stage and of course anybody can see it completety different.

You had some discussions with TiUser during the last months on how to solve these problems in cantabile. I think I understood most of the ideas mentioned and - yes - if Brad would implement one of them into cantabile I would be the first to overthink my decision as I like cantabile a lot. But at the moment this is the way I see it.

regards, humphrey
C7.5, Forte3.0, Cantabile, i7 4770k
JeffB
KVRer
 
18 posts since 31 Jul, 2004, from Devon, England

Postby JeffB; Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:08 pm

I originally came to Cantabile from Forte because I needed 64 bit support.

Looks like it's back to Forte and V3.
Cantabile Peformer on Lenovo W530 i7 16Gb, Win7 x64. Halion Sonic 2, OPX Pro II, Korg Legacy Collection Digital, Omnisphere, Real LPC, Amplitube 3.
pinkcanaru
KVRist
 
193 posts since 6 Dec, 2005

Postby pinkcanaru; Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:37 pm

TiUser
KVRAF
 
2308 posts since 13 Apr, 2008, from Germany

Postby TiUser; Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:29 am

LOL... hope he doesn't burn these days... :-o
Best regards, TiUser
...and keep on jamming...
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