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Tone2 Rayblaster: OUT NOW! (demo version available)

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

User avatar
Ingonator
KVRAF
 
8248 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:30 pm

pdxindy wrote:Unnecessary for you... but not for someone else... How about you stop trying to tell people what is important to them. You frequently make these sorts of blanket statements which amount to 'you would be smarter if you thought like me'. You end up creating the thing you want less of.

You imply that i have bad intentions with my comments here which is not the case. I really try to be more than helpful which even you should be able to agree.
I offered my personal opinion on that specific topic you mentioned besides providing tons of useful informations (and downloads...) here. :wink:

I also gave the hint to post about that "problem" at the official forum which the happened and maybe the will be a solution for this with the next update.
At the time of release there were much more serious things that had to be taken care of.

No idea what happens with the installation at your computer but i hope it will be solved.


Ingo
Last edited by Ingonator on Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Waldorf Beta Forum Manager
"Atmospheric Transients" for PPG Wave 3.V
"Analog vs Digital" for Blofeld
Win 7 64-bit / Live 9 / Cubase 7.5 / Studio One / Reaper / Pro Tools // Blofeld / Pulse 2 / many plugins
User avatar
Ingonator
KVRAF
 
8248 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:34 pm

DHR53 wrote:I just DLd this and ElectraX to give em' a whirl... Hmmm do these both sound sort of low-fi scratchy, old-radio thing sort of. Not that thats a totally bad thing but they seem sort of warm and fuzzy... could be because I'm demoing Padshop and Retrologue but that was my perception. Doing the Xmas demo run through to see if I need any of these. Liking that Padshop though. :)

I could not really agree. Especially ElectraX got a decent sound quality for my (and also for those of others AFAIK) taste. Same with Rayblaster for me.

Personally i don't really like (or better need...) the new Steinberg synths like e.g. Padshop and Retrologue. Everybody got different tastes. :shrug:


Ingo
Last edited by Ingonator on Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Waldorf Beta Forum Manager
"Atmospheric Transients" for PPG Wave 3.V
"Analog vs Digital" for Blofeld
Win 7 64-bit / Live 9 / Cubase 7.5 / Studio One / Reaper / Pro Tools // Blofeld / Pulse 2 / many plugins
User avatar
Sampleconstruct
KVRAF
 
7310 posts since 12 Oct, 2008, from Here and there

Postby Sampleconstruct; Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:48 pm

Padshop (Pro) is not a synth, it's just one of the most capable Granulators out there, what would there be not to like about it :)
pdxindy
KVRAF
 
8971 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:48 pm

Ingonator wrote:
pdxindy wrote:Unnecessary for you... but not for someone else... How about you stop trying to tell people what is important to them. You frequently make these sorts of blanket statements which amount to 'you would be smarter if you thought like me'. You end up creating the thing you want less of.

Unnecessary statement from your side IMO. You imply that i have bad intentions with my comments here which is not the case.


Actually, I implied you had good intentions... and as the saying goes, a certain road is paved with them ;)

You of course are free to write as you wish...
User avatar
Ingonator
KVRAF
 
8248 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:22 pm

Sampleconstruct wrote:Padshop (Pro) is not a synth, it's just one of the most capable Granulators out there, what would there be not to like about it :)

Already got e.g. Absynth 5, Alchemy, Rayblaster, Hamburg-Audio Nuklear, ElectraX and Largo so no real need for Padshop for me.


Ingo
Waldorf Beta Forum Manager
"Atmospheric Transients" for PPG Wave 3.V
"Analog vs Digital" for Blofeld
Win 7 64-bit / Live 9 / Cubase 7.5 / Studio One / Reaper / Pro Tools // Blofeld / Pulse 2 / many plugins
User avatar
Sampleconstruct
KVRAF
 
7310 posts since 12 Oct, 2008, from Here and there

Postby Sampleconstruct; Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:26 pm

Ingonator wrote:
Sampleconstruct wrote:Padshop (Pro) is not a synth, it's just one of the most capable Granulators out there, what would there be not to like about it :)

Already got e.g. Absynth 5, Alchemy, Rayblaster, Hamburg-Audio Nuklear, ElectraX and Largo so no real need for Padshop for me.


Ingo


LOL - I hear you, but that's different then saying "I don't like it"...
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DHR53
KVRAF
 
2804 posts since 21 Oct, 2002, from "somewhere between digital and analog"

Postby DHR53; Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:31 pm

Hmmm... maybe it's the presets... but the Padshop Pro presets are some of the best pads and ambient stuff I've heard lately. Maybe just me but the Tone2 stuff all sounds alike. That's why I'm demoing.

Just my perception. :)
Image
User avatar
Ingonator
KVRAF
 
8248 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:15 am

DHR53 wrote:Hmmm... maybe it's the presets... but the Padshop Pro presets are some of the best pads and ambient stuff I've heard lately. Maybe just me but the Tone2 stuff all sounds alike. That's why I'm demoing.

Just my perception. :)

Just started working on presets for an official "atmospher/Pads" soundset for Rayblaster... AFAIK MaxSynths and Himalaya will participate too.
This synth is great for such sounds IMO.

Anyway my personal ultimate "pad machine" still is the Korg Wavestation which is why i got both the hardware (EX version) and the plugin. Wavetable synth like those from Waldorf (e.g. Blofeld, PPG Wave 3.V, LArgo) are also great for this.

With some clever programming you could get similar sounds on Rayblaster (like shown with the small selection of wavetable presets included. OK i admit that wave sequencing is a bit difficult but emulation of the start phase of a big waveform (one the consists of several small waveforms and some crossfading which results in a "wavetable") with the Arp pattern is basically the same.

With the "Resynthesis" function in Rayblaster you could import sample and RAyblaster will automatically adjust the main osc controls. Depending on the type and the length of the sample this results in a kind of granular synthesis.
This is something i have tried only shortly so far as i concenrated of using my own waveforms and "wavetables" with the "normal" waveform loading.

Finally Rayblaster and Padshop seem to be very different in terms of their synth engine and features which i would not really compare them.
To substitute Retrologue i got several other synths including e.g. Saurus, Synthix, Oxium, Synth Squad and Diva.
For Granular synthesis i also got synths like e.g. Absynth 5, Alchemy and Hamburg-Audio Nuklear.
One problem i found with many presets for e.g. Absynth is that the Granular sounds seem to sound very interesting on their own but for using them in a track mostly they are too much "experimental". My own sounds except a few maybe are usuall created with the intention to make usable sounds.

The "Pulsar Train synthesis" in Hamburg-Audio Nuklear (for which i tested and made factory presets too) is a different interesting approach to Granular synthesis without depending on loading samples.

One audio demo in the Padshop audio demos is called "Padshop goes Beat". In Rayblaster with activating the BPM switch you could sync the waveform to BPM to get some rhythmic sounds (and you could use the Arp pattern for modulation). Many thing seem to be possible with Rayblaster, they just have to be explored which is not possible within the time available for a factory bank.



Ingo
Waldorf Beta Forum Manager
"Atmospheric Transients" for PPG Wave 3.V
"Analog vs Digital" for Blofeld
Win 7 64-bit / Live 9 / Cubase 7.5 / Studio One / Reaper / Pro Tools // Blofeld / Pulse 2 / many plugins
LeVzi
KVRAF
 
1717 posts since 7 Jul, 2008, from Cardiff, Wales, UK

Postby LeVzi; Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:39 am

One thing I cannot understand is how people state that T2 synths all sound the same.

Gladiator doesn't sound like ElectraX or Saurus unless you make it sound the same, and vice versa.

Dune sounds like Sylenth which sounds like massive which sounds like any vst when you make them sound the same.

I'd agree that the T2 synths have a similar Sheen to the sound, so maybe you mean that ? But the actual sounds themselves aren't the same.
Forward ever, Backward never
User avatar
Ingonator
KVRAF
 
8248 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:49 am

LeVzi wrote:One thing I cannot understand is how people state that T2 synths all sound the same.

Gladiator doesn't sound like ElectraX or Saurus unless you make it sound the same, and vice versa.

Dune sounds like Sylenth which sounds like massive which sounds like any vst when you make them sound the same.

I'd agree that the T2 synths have a similar Sheen to the sound, so maybe you mean that ? But the actual sounds themselves aren't the same.

This is something i also don't get, same about that they sound "Lo-Fi". Especially ElectraX is the opposite of "Lo-Fi" for me.

The VA engine of Saurus sounds different to the one in ElectraX for example.


about Rayblaster:
Some of the positive comments about Rayblaster seemed to be from people that tried to use it "from scratch".
Anyway i still think that the factory library is well balanced between "bread & butter" and experimental/new sounds.

One interesting aspect in Rayblaster is that even from a small single cycle waveform (which does not have to be from an analog synth) could create interesting results as each waveform creates it's own unique filter response which could lead to different timbres when "playing" with the Formant knob.
In contaray to sample based synths you could create such small waveforms from scratch using e.g. tools like DNR Wave Designer. creating a big sample "from scratch" would be quite difficult...


Ingo
Last edited by Ingonator on Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:05 am, edited 4 times in total.
Waldorf Beta Forum Manager
"Atmospheric Transients" for PPG Wave 3.V
"Analog vs Digital" for Blofeld
Win 7 64-bit / Live 9 / Cubase 7.5 / Studio One / Reaper / Pro Tools // Blofeld / Pulse 2 / many plugins
User avatar
Ingonator
KVRAF
 
8248 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:40 am

Markus just posted an important informtion for Mac users, especially those who got problem installing Rayblaster:

http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?topic=1344.0

looks like there is a patch needed for users of OSX 10.6.

quote:
Important info for all OSX 10.6 (Snow Leopard) users:

In short: Install this patch from Apple or you wont be able to install recent software!
http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1512

------------------------------

With OSX 10.8 Apple introduced Gatekeeper. Gatekeeper prevents the installation of software which is not from Apple's own online store or from software developers who don't pay money to Apple to be a 'signed Apple developer'.
That's why more and more 3rd party developers will sign their software with a certificate.

However OSX 10.6.8 has problems to run modern installers which have been signed to be properly compatibe with Gatekeeper and OSX 10.8. Many installers abort with an error message without any given reason.

The fix this problem Apple provided a patch called 'Apple Software Installer Update 1.0' that all users who are on OSX 10.6.8 should install:
http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1512

Unlike the words from Apple who 'recommend it to all users' we see it as an 'essential for all users': If you don't install it you are not longer able to install most recent software!


Same is posted in the Saurus forum:
http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?topic=1345.0
and also here:
http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?topic=1346.0


Ingo
Waldorf Beta Forum Manager
"Atmospheric Transients" for PPG Wave 3.V
"Analog vs Digital" for Blofeld
Win 7 64-bit / Live 9 / Cubase 7.5 / Studio One / Reaper / Pro Tools // Blofeld / Pulse 2 / many plugins
User avatar
osiris
KVRAF
 
7265 posts since 20 Nov, 2003, from Lost and Spaced

Postby osiris; Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:49 am

I don't think Gladiator sounds anything like ElectraX, or Saurus. Same as I don't think Massive sounds anything like Absynth.
User avatar
werp
KVRian
 
1134 posts since 14 Aug, 2012, from Australia

Postby werp; Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:04 am

Tried the demo yesterday. An amazing piece of kit.
Will purchase just as soon as I can find the filthy luchre.
One of my Bengals was bored and read a biography of Harry Houdini. She was so impressed that she now keeps escaping over my roof. Have to blow a couple of thousand in a hurry to keep her in. :(
My knowledge of physics ends at knowing how to spell it.
LeVzi
KVRAF
 
1717 posts since 7 Jul, 2008, from Cardiff, Wales, UK

Postby LeVzi; Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:03 am

OT but I have padshop pro here, and i've never really gotten into it. Keep forgetting that I do actually own it tbh. And from what I see, it should be worth me getting into. I like granulizers.
Forward ever, Backward never
User avatar
Ingonator
KVRAF
 
8248 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:22 am

LeVzi wrote:OT but I have padshop pro here, and i've never really gotten into it. Keep forgetting that I do actually own it tbh. And from what I see, it should be worth me getting into. I like granulizers.

You could try ti import one of the samples in the RAyblaster content (not the single cycles...) with the Resynthesis tool from the file menu. The result could be comparable to Granular synthesis. You could play with the harmonic value and/or the start phase.
When imported with the Resynthesis tool Rayblaster will try to fit the oscillator settings as good as possible.
You could the try to modulate the osc parameters (e.g. start phase, harmonic) or shape the waveform further using different "Osc windows" (drop-down menu available below "load Wave1" in the oscillator section.

about "osc windows" from the manual:

Osc Window:
There are several window types available, each with its own preferred use or way to influence the sound.
The cosine window is the softest sounding one, it is a general purpose window and will be preferred especially on granulartypes of sounds.
Soft Saw, Exponential, Saw Down and Off are suitable for modeling the behavior of filters or beat slicing drum-loops.
For synced sounds use Off/Square or Saw Down together with
the SYNC button.
Example Patches in Patch manager >Tutorial category:
HardSync, BpmSyncOsc, BpmSyncPad, BeatSlice.


In the manual the "Resynthesis" import is also called "quick import". You could use it to load all kind of waveforms but it will automatically reset the preset and adapt some of the osc parameters automatically.


About "harmonic" (from manual):

Harmonic:
Harmonic controls the harmonic content of the oscillator. When it is set to a value above 1 the waveform within the window is repeated for several times so it will sound more bright and harsh.
When negative values are used it will result mostly in a darker sound, since only a smaller part of the waveform will be part of the window.
The Start value defines the start offset of the waveform or the waveform's phase within the window function.
The Start value is for example used when you want to play granular or beat sliced sounds, where only a part of the sample is played back. If harmonic is set to a negative value the Start parameter can be used to scan forward or backward through a sample.
With these types of sounds usually a sawtooth LFO is routed to Osc Start Phase, this will allow the synth to scan-play though the sample in real time.
Example Patches in Patch manager >Tutorial category: Granular, Drumline,
BPMSyncOsc, BPMSyncPad, WavetableSynthesis


I have started to collect some useful informations (besides free waveforms) here:
http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?topic=1336.0


Ingo
Waldorf Beta Forum Manager
"Atmospheric Transients" for PPG Wave 3.V
"Analog vs Digital" for Blofeld
Win 7 64-bit / Live 9 / Cubase 7.5 / Studio One / Reaper / Pro Tools // Blofeld / Pulse 2 / many plugins
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