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I sit JUST listening habits that we like major and minor scales??

Chords, scales, harmony, melody, etc.

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KVRian
 
556 posts since 24 Mar, 2012

Postby crazyfiltertweaker; Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:39 am I sit JUST listening habits that we like major and minor scales??

In western music we use major and minor chords and progressions the most.
but what else is behind the half and full steps progressions of our scales beside the listening habits and the consonant intervalls like dominants, sixths, octaves, subdominants and triads? Why we dont use ANY progression more than especially the major and minor one???
KVRAF
 
3599 posts since 19 Jan, 2008

Postby tapper mike; Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:46 am

Here we go again.


Try it out for yourself. Play whole tones, diminished and chromatic material. There are more then a sufficient amount of material for listening but the important part is playing them not just trying to learn from observation.

Use some of that critical thinking you've got going on and learn to make some judgments of your own. Instead of always asking why.
KVRian
 
556 posts since 24 Mar, 2012

Postby crazyfiltertweaker; Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:55 am

but why exactly 7 notes, not 8 or 9 or 10 or 11?

Im just interested in the theory, not in practical experience.
KVRian
 
993 posts since 14 May, 2008, from Tralfamadore

Postby Bobbotov; Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:05 am

Michael1985 wrote:but why exactly 7 notes, not 8 or 9 or 10 or 11?

Im just interested in the theory, not in practical experience.


http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/52470.html
KVRian
 
1141 posts since 10 Oct, 2004

Postby JumpingJackFlash; Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:43 am

Michael1985 wrote:but why exactly 7 notes, not 8 or 9 or 10 or 11?

Im just interested in the theory, not in practical experience.


Are you going to keep asking the same question over and over again?
What makes you think this time will be any different than your previous attempts (here and here)?
Unfamiliar words can be looked up in my Glossary of musical terms.
Also check out my Introduction to Music Theory.
KVRian
 
812 posts since 27 Sep, 2009, from Bristol UK

Postby leggie; Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:59 am

JumpingJackFlash wrote:
Michael1985 wrote:but why exactly 7 notes, not 8 or 9 or 10 or 11?

Im just interested in the theory, not in practical experience.


Are you going to keep asking the same question over and over again?
What makes you think this time will be any different than your previous attempts (here and here)?


The OP may need some better teachers that's why he/she keeps trying ? and your last explanation did not work.

I's often read in buddhist text's finding the right teacher is the only way to learn properly.
:D :)
KVRian
 
556 posts since 24 Mar, 2012

Postby crazyfiltertweaker; Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:27 pm

Bobbotov wrote:
Michael1985 wrote:but why exactly 7 notes, not 8 or 9 or 10 or 11?

Im just interested in the theory, not in practical experience.


http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/52470.html


That is the reason.

Or did somebody post this link in one of the other threads before??


Different threads, different answers and one step closer to understand what is behind the scales.
KVRist
 
444 posts since 29 Jul, 2002, from netherlands

Postby monopoli; Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:48 pm

KVRer
 
8 posts since 19 Dec, 2012

Postby djtrancendance; Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:35 pm

Simply put:

A major chord is 1/1 5/4 3/2 AKA 4/4 5/4 6/4 = 4:5:6. Every part of this chord is simple...even 3/2 over 5/4 forms 6/5...another simple ratio.

As for minor, it's simply not so obvious. A minor chord is 1/1 6/5 3/2 = 10/10 12/10 15/10 = 10:12:15. Even though 6/5 and 3/2 over 6/5 = 5/4 are simple...its fairly high position on the harmonic series starting at the 10th harmonic is NOT very simple. Go figure it sounds a bit "sad".

Alternatives?
Well, a chord such as C D# G# can be notated as 5/5 6/5 8/5 e.g. 5:6:8. But that's really just an inversion of the 4:5:6 major chord.
Trying the chord of C D# F yields 1/1 6/5 4/3..note that between 4/3 and 6/5 is a 9/8. This simplifies to 15:18:20...really not that much more sour, ratio-wise, than minor. You can even invert it into G#4 C D# to get 10:15:18 to make it sound sweeter. This is one of my favorite chords: very usable in place of just major or minor and, yet, it seems seldom used by pop musicians.

You may be wondering about the also fairly popular in pop songs (though not quite as popular as major or minor) suspended chord. Well, that chord is simply 1/1 4/3 3/2 or 6:8:9. Go figure, it uses quite simple ratios.

Far as diminished, it's 1/1 6/5 7/5 or 5:6:7. You would think this would sound sweet but, it turns out...12EDO (what your keyboard is tuned to assign to each of its 12 notes) has a very sour estimation 7/5 also called the "tritone", which throws the chord off and makes it sound sour.

------------
Now say you're bored of the above chords and want something new that's low ratio and fairly sweet sounding...like a 5:7:9, 8:7:10 or 10:11:12. Such chords don't exist in the 12-tone (12EDO) chromatic scale on your keyboard, but can be found within Xenharmonic systems such as 31EDO and then played using VSTi software instruments that support SCALA (a Xenharmonic tuning format).
KVRAF
 
9358 posts since 20 Oct, 2007

Postby jancivil; Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:02 pm

At a certain point finding the coincidence of ratios and chord voicings is likely to become rather limiting. as opposed to finding things out via the modeling of composers; whose workings of harmony were based in concepts such as voice-leading, support of melody, contextual considerations et cetera. and studying harmony qua harmony.

that also goes for this subjective language, 'sweet/sour'. EG., there is a *reason for* a 'diminished chord' which belongs in particular musical context, it isn't primarily about its sonority.

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