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great kamioooka - some thoughts to make it a legend.

Official support for: g200kg.com

Moderator: g200kg

brok landers
KVRAF
 
5956 posts since 25 Sep, 2003, from right here, as you can see ...

Postby brok landers; Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:26 pm great kamioooka - some thoughts to make it a legend.

hi g200kg,

i already left a post to tell you how much i love that little thing.
now here's some of my thoughts of what _imho_ has to be added/changed/enhanced to really make thisone as legendary as f.e. synth1 is.

modulation via cc's/velocity/keyfollow
i have wrapped my head around on how one could have utilized at least 5 very necessary controls like velocity, keyfollow, mw, aftertouch and pitchbend with their _own_ amounts on _every_ modulatable parameter (as i f.e. don't like most velocity dependant parameters to be _always_ active and set to max - i'd like to decide this myself). as this simply can't be done convincingly with, say, a modulation module, i came to the conclusion, that you should add the possibility to doubleclick/rightclick a parameter, and a popup window would pop up with the entries "vel", "key", "mw", "cpress" and "pitchbend (with individual amounts for up and down)", and a dedicated, bipolar up and down dragable value box for the individual amounts, as well as another numeric box next to it, that controls the "interpolation" or "lowpassing" of the parameter, to smooth out eventual steppyness when .f.e. moving the modwheel, would be the "easiest" way to go. this would instantly lift kamioooka to one of my go-to synths. remember, i do sounddesign for my living. i'm not saying this to brag around, rather than showing you how close you are when it comes to someone who really loves synths and deals with synths/sounddesign since over 30 years now. :)

vco module
even if in analog and modulare synths back then never provided, i would love for the vco's to be able to retrigger the phase, as well as to set it manually between 0 and 360 degrees. this really helps for everything that is percussive.
you could put a silder right next to the "manual" pwm slider, which, when set to max low position could have the osc in freerun, and everything above would retrigger accordingly, up to the point where the slider is max top, where it would be 360 degrees in phase shift.

noise module
- could you give the noise module a bipolar, small knob for hi/lowpassing it?
would greatly enhance the possibility of what you can do with it... i know i could send it to another filter module, but there's not enough module-space, which exactly brings me to the next point:

more modules/module-spaces
first for the spaces...
currently one can only use 10 modules in kamiooka. right after 5min of tweaking it, i ran out of "rackspaces, to open more modules... :) so could you maybe either make the gui scrollable within the module "rackspaces", so that _always_ one empty module slot is there, leftnext to the master module, or make the screenwidth resizable via dragging (horizontally only)?

now for the modules:
how about fx modules? i could imagine quite some fx that could be really benefitting the preset making, and one could easily use them as modules... imagine these possibilities, when implementing fx modules for free routing... :)

saturation
there's very early a saturation kicking in in the amp module. at which value of the vca-in slider exactly does it kick in? and could one maybe set the threshold of where it kicks in by himself? cos sometimes i find it very distracting, so i lower the slider accordingly, but then the master volume knob doesn't have enough range to compensate the level loss...

filter
while the filter is nice for standard things with less resonance i wouldn't mind having another vcf module with a filter, which has some kind of tanh approximation or whatever saturator in the feedback path, for the thing to sound more analog than it does now...

oversampling
kamioooka does use a rediciulous low amount of cpu cycles, so i wouldn't mind, if there would be an oversampling switch in dedicated modules (or global for relevant modules), especially if audiorate modulation takes place, to get rid of some aliasing.

voices
i would love kamioooka to have:
- adjustable voice count in steps of 1
- 16 voices. often it's a basic patch that would make up for a pad. but a pad should be at least be playable with 6 simultaneous voices, of which the releases are able to overlap - that makes at least 12 voices to be used, in some cases 16 could be even more helpful...

also, if there's a voice overflow in kamioooka, as soon as all 8 voices are used simultaneously and you add a nineth voice - nothing happens. instead it should be, that the _oldest_ voice should be killed and the new one being played. i wouldn't call this a bug, but for sure a rather unlucky implemenation, given the synth is actually able to provide polyphony... :)

step sequencer module
two things really come up all the time where i think this is either not sufficent or wrong:
- in free run, one would expect the sequencer to be _not_ retriggering when a new voice is added. instead it does retrigger.
- in none "freerun" mode, one would expect the sequencer to retrigger (which it does), but it does stop at the last step, which one would _not_ expect it to do at all.

- in between the switch "step" and "smooth" i instead for the switch would wish for a continuous slider to choose from min value = step, and max value = max glide from one step value to another. anything between is... well... anything between... :)

outmix/master module
- in the master module i would wish for a slider that could set the amount of alternation-panning of voices. 0 = no panning, max = 1st voice left, 2nd voice right, 3rd voice left, and so on...

- also, i would wish to be able to control the panning monophonic with an lfo or whatever control signal from another module.

i would really wish for an arpeggiator module
it could be basic, with the modes "up", "down", "up/down", "down/up" and "as palyed", sometimes called "note order", too... it could furthermore have a retrigger option, where every new note added to the chord will retrigger the arp, or, when this is set to off, it will only retrigger, if all voices are dead. last it would have the typical range switch between 0 to 4 octaves range, as well as a global note length knob, of which the max note length is overlapping, so that the arp is able to play legato notes.

glide
i would love the glide to have 2 modes, when the voices are set to mono:
one where glide would only be applied to notes that are played legato, hence i'd put a "legato" led switch over the glide knob, and, if that is not set to "on", it glides always, as it is now.


last but not least i would love to tell you that these are only kindly meant suggestion, but they come from someone who really knows about synths and what's important in them, and i would like to thank you for this already great pice of work. i really dig the quirky sound of it! great work, as you always seem to provide, be it synths, fx plugins or knob/skinman, and i would gladly pay for products like these. and you give them away for _free_!! can't be valued enough.
keep up the good work, and may i dare to say, that i hope you got back on your feet again in terms of your terrible loss a few years ago.

thanks again!


btw, if you have any further questions or something wasn't as clear as i thought, just drop me a post here or pm me....


:tu: :tu: :tu:

edit:
i would like to add another feature request: please make the lfo slowest speed down to 0.01hz at least, to be able to have really slow modulations. :)
reg, the brok
Image
-gear is as good as the innovation behind it-the man-
The Telenator
Banned

Postby The Telenator; Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:06 pm

I'd like to take a minute to also compliment you on this new synth creation. I have been aware of your other software offerings for quite a while now -- this latest, your synth, looks like the crowning achievement! You have something to be proud of here, and I ought to add to that mention of several friends and colleagues who have commented much the same. "Charming" was a word that came up a lot. Congratulations!

I read brok's laundry list of fixes/changes above pretty carefully, and while a brand new synth can almost always benefit from user input regarding changes and additions, I want to caution strongly against changing almost anything here. The danger of implementing these many changes requested is that your Kamioooka will quickly go from 'charming' to just another, like the 300-plus other quasi-VA-same-sounding synths already glutting the market. I rather like its digital disposition and sounds.

I noticed many of the requests included the addition of more controls. Please don't. Things are compacted and busy enough already! I've come to like just fine the various limitations in the time I've used it. In fact, one thing I like in particular is some of its built-in limitations. It gives it a character all its own.

People need to learn and understand that every new synth doesn't need to do everything a Sylenth can. I simply don't understand -- I have a folder chuck full of synths that all sound almost alike. The refreshing thing with yours is that it is NOT like all the rest! Why must all these unique synths be bashed around until they all sound and operate like yet another Minimoog or Juno 6?! There are already dozens of them!

Thanks again for your hard work. Do try to maintain your own individual goals and creativity. Your track record of design is proof enough of this. (Now, do I also need to include here that I am a professional musician, sound engineer and producer of more years than I usually like to remember, blah, blah, blah . . . )

Best Wishes, and Cheers!
Tele
g200kg
KVRist
 
481 posts since 22 May, 2004, from Yokohama, Japan

Postby g200kg; Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:27 am

hello,
Sure, the suggestions are not always adopted unconditionally.
but any suggestions are inspirable for me.

I would like to do improvement carefully :wink:
brok landers
KVRAF
 
5956 posts since 25 Sep, 2003, from right here, as you can see ...

Postby brok landers; Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:07 pm

g200kg wrote:hello,
Sure, the suggestions are not always adopted unconditionally.
but any suggestions are inspirable for me.

I would like to do improvement carefully :wink:

yes, don't over-rush it. but my thoughts are well thought over. :wink:
reg, the brok
Image
-gear is as good as the innovation behind it-the man-
The Telenator
Banned

Postby The Telenator; Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:00 am

I see now that you have won. Congratulations! I believe this supports my comments above. Your synth won this based on the way it is now, not based on the way people want it to be. Comments about it sounding digital also shows me that some people do not understand the synth in the first place. They should go and download and use one of the 7 thousand free VA clones of the Juno.

Best Wishes!
User avatar
resistent
KVRist
 
178 posts since 14 Apr, 2008, from Berlin

Postby resistent; Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:23 am

Thx for Kamioooka - I love it.

I own a couple of hardware modular synths and searched a while for a good software equivalent. I worked with all modular software systems available for windows and most of them lack some skills or features (In my opinion).But Kamioooka catch in some way the soul of modular hardware and thats for free - great.

I hope the further development is still going on. Trust your intuition and keep on working.

Two questions: 1. Would it be possible to integrating a patch managment system? I hate fxb/fxp because the handling of this files are in my DAW (Audiomulch, AbletonLive) the horror. It would be also nice to start Kamioooka with a default bank - can u release one?

2. Can I Donate in some way?

Edit: A simple mixersection in the MISC Module would be a great feature

Thx for Kamioooka - I love it
Last edited by resistent on Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:42 am, edited 4 times in total.
LOVE*FIGHT*CREATE
-------------------------------------------
excusemyenglish
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DuX
KVRAF
 
3217 posts since 14 Mar, 2002, from Underworld

Postby DuX; Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:01 am

I adore Kamioooka and I voted for it, of course. Thank you so much g200kg!

I also don't see much wrong with it. Except maybe more real-time modulated stuff. The thing is, I love the sound, but when I make a cool sound with it, it makes me want to modulate it in real time with controllers, wheel, whatever, since whatever I make with it sounds a bit too static IMO. As things are now, I can't even make it to not react to velocity>VCA. It always makes sounds louder when you press keys harder. I think some kind of a little modulation matrix, a modulation module?, could make it a real beast. ;)

Again, thank you for your work on this, and congratulations on successful KVR DC 2012! ;P

Cheers!
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
g200kg
KVRist
 
481 posts since 22 May, 2004, from Yokohama, Japan

Postby g200kg; Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:17 pm

some65 wrote:1. Would it be possible to integrating a patch managment system? I hate fxb/fxp because the handling of this files are in my DAW (Audiomulch, AbletonLive) the horror. It would be also nice to start Kamioooka with a default bank - can u release one?

hmmm, I never expected that...
is that means just saveas/load buttons and open file selector on the synth GUI?

some65 wrote:2. Can I Donate in some way?

There is a modest paypal button on bottom of the page,
http://www.g200kg.com/en/software/index.html

DuX wrote:The thing is, I love the sound, but when I make a cool sound with it, it makes me want to modulate it in real time with controllers, wheel, whatever, since whatever I make with it sounds a bit too static IMO. As things are now, I can't even make it to not react to velocity>VCA. It always makes sounds louder when you press keys harder. I think some kind of a little modulation matrix, a modulation module?, could make it a real beast. Wink

Yes, current 'Gate' signal is not 0|1 but reflect the velocity and the ADSR react the incoming level. I am thinking of preparing 2 signals 'Gate-digital' and 'Gate-velocity' individually (and additionally mod wheel?).
brok landers
KVRAF
 
5956 posts since 25 Sep, 2003, from right here, as you can see ...

Postby brok landers; Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:02 pm

g200kg wrote:>snip<
DuX wrote:The thing is, I love the sound, but when I make a cool sound with it, it makes me want to modulate it in real time with controllers, wheel, whatever, since whatever I make with it sounds a bit too static IMO. As things are now, I can't even make it to not react to velocity>VCA. It always makes sounds louder when you press keys harder. I think some kind of a little modulation matrix, a modulation module?, could make it a real beast. Wink

Yes, current 'Gate' signal is not 0|1 but reflect the velocity and the ADSR react the incoming level. I am thinking of preparing 2 signals 'Gate-digital' and 'Gate-velocity' individually (and additionally mod wheel?).

g200kg, have you thought about my idea about this? implemented like this, it would solve _all_ modulation problems once and for all...
reg, the brok
Image
-gear is as good as the innovation behind it-the man-
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resistent
KVRist
 
178 posts since 14 Apr, 2008, from Berlin

Postby resistent; Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:10 pm

Thx g200kg

some65 wrote:1. Would it be possible to integrating a patch managment system? I hate fxb/fxp because the handling of this files are in my DAW (Audiomulch, AbletonLive) the horror. It would be also nice to start Kamioooka with a default bank - can u release one?

g200kg wrote:hmmm, I never expected that...
is that means just saveas/load buttons and open file selector on the synth GUI?


It so that my DAW Ableton and Audimulch just save/load VST Banks nothing more. But I would like to rename a Preset an then save the Bank. That was my ambition to beg for a patch management system. :oops: I hope I explained it well.

some65 wrote:2. Can I Donate in some way?

g200kg wrote:There is a modest paypal button on bottom of the page,
http://www.g200kg.com/en/software/index.html


:dog: I must be blind :lol:


BTW A simple mixersection in the MISC Module would be a great feature
LOVE*FIGHT*CREATE
-------------------------------------------
excusemyenglish
User avatar
EvilDragon
KVRAF
 
9826 posts since 6 Jan, 2009, from Croatia

Postby EvilDragon; Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:16 pm

brok landers wrote:
g200kg wrote:>snip<
DuX wrote:The thing is, I love the sound, but when I make a cool sound with it, it makes me want to modulate it in real time with controllers, wheel, whatever, since whatever I make with it sounds a bit too static IMO. As things are now, I can't even make it to not react to velocity>VCA. It always makes sounds louder when you press keys harder. I think some kind of a little modulation matrix, a modulation module?, could make it a real beast. Wink

Yes, current 'Gate' signal is not 0|1 but reflect the velocity and the ADSR react the incoming level. I am thinking of preparing 2 signals 'Gate-digital' and 'Gate-velocity' individually (and additionally mod wheel?).

g200kg, have you thought about my idea about this? implemented like this, it would solve _all_ modulation problems once and for all...



Yep, what brok suggested in the first post about modulation with MW/PB/AT along with lag amount, that would totally rule!
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DuX
KVRAF
 
3217 posts since 14 Mar, 2002, from Underworld

Postby DuX; Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:20 pm

Sounds great! :D

The two modes "digital" 1/0 and "velocity" [analog? lol] for VCA sounds great, too, g200kg. Simple and logical. :D I would most certainly keep it at "digital" most of the time and use velocity to modulate something else, like cutoff frequency or VCF envelope depth. ;)

I love this synth. So easy to program and get great sounds quickly. Either that, or I just know what I'm doing and this synth is for me. :hihi: Modulars are my second nature...

Cheers!
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
brok landers
KVRAF
 
5956 posts since 25 Sep, 2003, from right here, as you can see ...

Postby brok landers; Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:27 pm

DuX wrote:Sounds great! :D

The two modes "digital" 1/0 and "velocity" [analog? lol] for VCA sounds great, too, g200kg. Simple and logical. :D I would most certainly keep it at "digital" most of the time and use velocity to modulate something else, like cutoff frequency or VCF envelope depth. ;)

I love this synth. So easy to program and get great sounds quickly. Either that, or I just know what I'm doing and this synth is for me. :hihi: Modulars are my second nature...

Cheers!

with the way of implementation i suggested above in my enhancement suggestions you could do all that in an easy way, but also much more...
see, via rightclick on a knob, with a small window that overlays/floats temporarily, you could assign whatever controller you want (or velocity, or pitchbend or aftertouch) to just that parameter... and you could scale it to the range you'd need and you could set the smoothing...
then just close it and you're ready to go. a small "dot" within the knob itself could then indicate, that it is assigned to a controller. imagine what you could do with kamioooka, if every knob could do that... almost everything you could imagine...
extremely powerful, yet dead easy and convenient to use... and you would save space, not cluttering up the ui but still have perfect overview...
reg, the brok
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-gear is as good as the innovation behind it-the man-
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DuX
KVRAF
 
3217 posts since 14 Mar, 2002, from Underworld

Postby DuX; Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:35 pm

MIDI learn on the right button? That's one of the most convenient things I've ever seen on any VST synth or FX. I think every plugin should have MIDI learn implemented in that way. :D Or you know, like a "learn" button, so you press the "learn" button first, and then you press the control that you want to tweak. I wonder why not so many VSTs don't have that. Quick and sooo convenient. ;)
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
brok landers
KVRAF
 
5956 posts since 25 Sep, 2003, from right here, as you can see ...

Postby brok landers; Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:47 pm

DuX wrote:MIDI learn on the right button? That's one of the most convenient things I've ever seen on any VST synth or FX. I think every plugin should have MIDI learn implemented in that way. :D

well, i didn't mean midi learn, i meant a dropdown menue you can choose from... but if there's a learn button beside to every matrix row, which, as soon as you moved the controller, assignes it, i would certainly not say no... :)

however, to make this clear:
what i mean was:

1. rightclick a knob, a popup window comes up with 2 horizontal rows. each row has a learn button (to include your wish), a dropdown field to select the cc, or keyfollow, or aftertouch, pitchbend up and down (seperateley!), an up and down dragable number box to set the range and another one next to it to smooth/interpolate the movement.

2. select a cc manually (or learn it via the learn button)
3. set the range value (bipolar!)
4. set the smoothing/interpolation

close the window, and you're done.
now, here's an important thing:
as soon as you have used both matrix "rows", another empty one pops up in that window, growing it to the necessary size (and so forth). there might be a limit depending the gui height, but that's likley far away, mostly you don't use, say, 8 different cc's on one parameter, right?
say, 8 assignable different sources for one parameter, that should be more than enough, right?

that's how i meant it... :)
reg, the brok
Image
-gear is as good as the innovation behind it-the man-
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