Analog Modeling: What is actually being modeled?
- KVRAF
- 5223 posts since 20 Jul, 2010
I'm waiting for the synth that is not only component-modelled but also models the universe that the synth is in. After all, if you're going to have drift caused by heat variance, those variations have to come from somewhere, and you can only get the true picture on what the temperature "should" be by modelling the entire universe, because of the butterfly effect
Give it another 300 years and we'll be there. Hopefully someone will also make a model of ME so I can come back to life and enjoy these synths
Give it another 300 years and we'll be there. Hopefully someone will also make a model of ME so I can come back to life and enjoy these synths
http://sendy.bandcamp.com/releases < My new album at Bandcamp! Now pay what you like!
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AdmiralQuality AdmiralQuality https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=83902
- Banned
- 6657 posts since 10 Oct, 2005 from Toronto, Canada
We model the individual quarks, gluons, and leptons and then let God sort it out.
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- KVRian
- 537 posts since 23 Jan, 2008 from Hamburg, Germany
And I know, what he will say: "It needs more warmth..."AdmiralQuality wrote:We model the individual quarks, gluons, and leptons and then let God sort it out.
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 6113 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America
Korg calls their stuff CMT. Component Modeling Technology. So, does that mean the MS-20, PolySix, et al, are literally modeled at the component level?
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud
my music @ SoundCloud
- KVRian
- 541 posts since 15 Jun, 2011 from Betwixt or between
I am very grateful for this thread- reasonable, honest discussion that is helpful for someone like me who understands juuust enough of the technical aspects to be interested, and to have wondered about this myself, but not enough to do anything more than hope fine folks like yourselves would sidestep the hyperbole and dumb it down for me
Re: Korg's "Component Modeling Technology":
Using ccDuckett's proprietary, exclusive Three Capitalized Words™ method,
this reply faithfully simulates virtual analog marketing ad-copy down to the level of the actual buzzwords used in the original campaigns, for a truly accurate recreation of the classics!
Re: Korg's "Component Modeling Technology":
Using ccDuckett's proprietary, exclusive Three Capitalized Words™ method,
this reply faithfully simulates virtual analog marketing ad-copy down to the level of the actual buzzwords used in the original campaigns, for a truly accurate recreation of the classics!
- u-he
- 28062 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Well, Korg is a good example. Next to no-one has a model of the MS-20 filter. I believe that's because there's no intuitive match in digital filter theory. Biquads, ladders, svfs and such don't get you there, as one integrator is also a differentiator.
OTOH it's simple enough to understand from the component side. If one understands how they interact, one can put a match in code, without ever reading a book on bilinear transforms.
That IMHO is component modeling.
OTOH it's simple enough to understand from the component side. If one understands how they interact, one can put a match in code, without ever reading a book on bilinear transforms.
That IMHO is component modeling.
- KVRAF
- 9576 posts since 16 Dec, 2002
The Drop does MS20Urs wrote:Well, Korg is a good example. Next to no-one has a model of the MS-20 filter. I believe that's because there's no intuitive match in digital filter theory. Biquads, ladders, svfs and such don't get you there, as one integrator is also a differentiator.
OTOH it's simple enough to understand from the component side. If one understands how they interact, one can put a match in code, without ever reading a book on bilinear transforms.
That IMHO is component modeling.
Amazon: why not use an alternative
- u-he
- 28062 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
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AdmiralQuality AdmiralQuality https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=83902
- Banned
- 6657 posts since 10 Oct, 2005 from Toronto, Canada
Here's a tidbit.
Poly-Ana contains no Pi.
(Okay, well, it does, but only in the graphics code for the knobs. Not in the audio code.)
All the mathematicians will want to bring Pi into it. But Poly-Ana doesn't know Pi. Pi HAPPENS... but not because she is aware of it. Just because, at some level, it's a simulation of real world physics. A DRASTIC OVERSIMPLIFICATION, sure, but still, a simulation.
Don't tell her though. Poly thinks she's a real girl!
Poly-Ana contains no Pi.
(Okay, well, it does, but only in the graphics code for the knobs. Not in the audio code.)
All the mathematicians will want to bring Pi into it. But Poly-Ana doesn't know Pi. Pi HAPPENS... but not because she is aware of it. Just because, at some level, it's a simulation of real world physics. A DRASTIC OVERSIMPLIFICATION, sure, but still, a simulation.
Don't tell her though. Poly thinks she's a real girl!
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- KVRAF
- 3368 posts since 2 Oct, 2004
Just out of curiosity. I thought Softube did the DSP for Fender products? Aren't Softube known for their meticulous component level circuit modelling approach.AXP wrote:earlevel,
To give an example, Fender amps with embedded digital modelling are still running on Motorola's DSP56... chips using a look-up tables for all the tone stack coefficients. And Line 6's and Digitech's guitar processors are using a chain of n*[biquad] - [static waveshaper] - m*[biquad] to model every kind of real-world amps.
Getting down to the component detail is more of a scientific than a real market-driven interest.
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2
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- KVRist
- 96 posts since 24 Mar, 2012
Yes they did a digital preamp design for Marshall, feedback pedal for Fender, NI has a line of virtual analog equipment powered by their DSP and their own products are just brilliant. Of course they claim to have a component level circuit modelling, just as everyone else does. But then you look at US8165309 (v1o wrote:Just out of curiosity. I thought Softube did the DSP for Fender products? Aren't Softube known for their meticulous component level circuit modelling approach.AXP wrote:earlevel,
To give an example, Fender amps with embedded digital modelling are still running on Motorola's DSP56... chips using a look-up tables for all the tone stack coefficients. And Line 6's and Digitech's guitar processors are using a chain of n*[biquad] - [static waveshaper] - m*[biquad] to model every kind of real-world amps.
Getting down to the component detail is more of a scientific than a real market-driven interest.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/8165309.pdf) and... well, I'm not suggesting anything
And while we're on it, here's an old patent by Line6:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5789689.pdf
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- KVRist
- 96 posts since 24 Mar, 2012
Oh, and by the way I was talking about the old Fender Cyber Twin, not the latest stuff.v1o wrote:Just out of curiosity. I thought Softube did the DSP for Fender products? Aren't Softube known for their meticulous component level circuit modelling approach.AXP wrote:earlevel,
To give an example, Fender amps with embedded digital modelling are still running on Motorola's DSP56... chips using a look-up tables for all the tone stack coefficients. And Line 6's and Digitech's guitar processors are using a chain of n*[biquad] - [static waveshaper] - m*[biquad] to model every kind of real-world amps.
Getting down to the component detail is more of a scientific than a real market-driven interest.
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 6113 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America
This has been interesting. Thanks for everyone's contributions.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud
my music @ SoundCloud
- KVRian
- 1091 posts since 8 Feb, 2012 from South - Africa
And no-one has a Polivoks model eitherUrs wrote:Well, Korg is a good example. Next to no-one has a model of the MS-20 filter.
No capacitors.
The dual saw bass - is the meanest thing I've heard from an analog.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul10/a ... saudio.htm