Buying a new laptop - the firewire issue
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- KVRian
- 1176 posts since 25 Dec, 2003 from Kentucky y'all
dang i forgot the most important part..
just going to a USB interface doesnt mean all will be well.
while you have a greater chance of success with USB most laptops have terrible DPC issues that requires a great amount of tweaking
some cant be fixed no matter what you do
others may work with just a few tweaks
and FYI we ship to the EU about once a week.. usually a laptop.
just going to a USB interface doesnt mean all will be well.
while you have a greater chance of success with USB most laptops have terrible DPC issues that requires a great amount of tweaking
some cant be fixed no matter what you do
others may work with just a few tweaks
and FYI we ship to the EU about once a week.. usually a laptop.
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- KVRAF
- 7400 posts since 17 Feb, 2005
Firewire has a dedicated IRQ channel. It will not be interrupted unless there is DPC latency or something more sinister.Marv Dave wrote:Thanks everyone for all the replies. Very helpful.
@plastic i was beginning to think along these lines, myself.
Would anyone else agree that USB external soundcards are good enough? For some reason i had this vague impression in the back of my mind somewhere that firewire was supposed to better for some reason?
OTOH, USB has seen many issues in regards to multiple devices on the same IRQ channel.
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- KVRAF
- 1929 posts since 4 Nov, 2004 from Manchester
Firewire chips built to spec do yes. Hence why everyone says use TI based controllers because they are the only firm still out there building to spec.camsr wrote: Firewire has a dedicated IRQ channel. It will not be interrupted unless there is DPC latency or something more sinister.
All the problem ones are down to various chip makers building low cost combo chips that do firewire/usb/eathernet or whatever for laptop companies who would rather shave a few dollers off where they can. Apple's premium here is a bonus as they do it properly and don't use combo chips meaning as someone else noted up top they work well in those regards.
Everyone else however trapped in a race to the bottom considers fw just another feature to stick on the spec list and they don't give much thought to bandwidth/irq issues in those regards. Sure they could write drivers that give priority to the FW assigned IRQ but then as most of the consumer market have probably never touched a fw port in their lives so why would that be deemed important?
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 42 posts since 4 Jun, 2007
Again thanks for all the help, I appreciate it everyone.
After reading these tips i suppose im left with a few stand out questions.
1.Would people say that by switching to a USB external soundcard i would be highly likely to have these DPC issues? I will be recording live audio (vocals, guitars, etc}.
2. In the cases where people do have DPC issues, what percentage of the time are they eventually sorted out with a bit of effort?
3. Will this be a total lottery for me when buying a laptop online as to whether i will have DPC trouble or are there certain brands i should avoid/opt for to improve my chances?
Thanks!
After reading these tips i suppose im left with a few stand out questions.
1.Would people say that by switching to a USB external soundcard i would be highly likely to have these DPC issues? I will be recording live audio (vocals, guitars, etc}.
2. In the cases where people do have DPC issues, what percentage of the time are they eventually sorted out with a bit of effort?
3. Will this be a total lottery for me when buying a laptop online as to whether i will have DPC trouble or are there certain brands i should avoid/opt for to improve my chances?
Thanks!
- KVRAF
- 15269 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland
It's a bit of a lottery alas. Most notorious in DPC latency issues is the WiFi wireless LAN adapter. If that's disabled (and you can live without it) and you still have issues, there are tools that can identify what driver (and thus what device) causes the issue. I forgot who made that tool. It's not the regular DPC Latency Checker (although that's a good tool nevertheless)
One way though to get the winning ticket is to buy a computer from ADK / Scan. These are guaranteed to be free of issues, but it comes with a price tag.
One way though to get the winning ticket is to buy a computer from ADK / Scan. These are guaranteed to be free of issues, but it comes with a price tag.
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
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- KVRist
- 130 posts since 31 Dec, 2004
I can only say that it was impossible to use the firebox on my laptop (but also on the desktop) with low latency (<10-15ms), while the NI kontrol audio 6 can go down to 64 samples with no issues other than the CPU load increasing (of course).
As far as I'm concerned, firewire is crap.
Maybe it's better on Apple hardware, no idea.
As far as I'm concerned, firewire is crap.
Maybe it's better on Apple hardware, no idea.
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- KVRian
- 1107 posts since 31 Oct, 2002 from the high desert
In the same (or similar) boat- just inherited a Dell running Vista with no on board FireWire. Bought an express card adapter that DOES have a TI chip, but the Firebox emits pops every now and then.
Ran DPC latency checker. No spikes were even in the red. I disabled everything I could, and it didn't have much if any effect on DPC (or audio).
Anything else I can try, other than abandoning the Firebox? Could Vista be an issue?
On board audio with ASIO4ALL may be my best bet short of buying a USB interface, huh?
BTW, same interface works perfectly on my ancient XP laptop. On that one the on board FireWire burnt out, and I'm going through a no name PCMCIA to FireWire adapter.
Ran DPC latency checker. No spikes were even in the red. I disabled everything I could, and it didn't have much if any effect on DPC (or audio).
Anything else I can try, other than abandoning the Firebox? Could Vista be an issue?
On board audio with ASIO4ALL may be my best bet short of buying a USB interface, huh?
BTW, same interface works perfectly on my ancient XP laptop. On that one the on board FireWire burnt out, and I'm going through a no name PCMCIA to FireWire adapter.
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- KVRAF
- 6323 posts since 30 Dec, 2004 from London uk
It could be virus checker/power saving utils/anything running in the background.Aural Chaos wrote:In the same (or similar) boat- just inherited a Dell running Vista with no on board FireWire. Bought an express card adapter that DOES have a TI chip, but the Firebox emits pops every now and then.
Ran DPC latency checker. No spikes were even in the red. I disabled everything I could, and it didn't have much if any effect on DPC (or audio).
Anything else I can try, other than abandoning the Firebox? Could Vista be an issue?
On board audio with ASIO4ALL may be my best bet short of buying a USB interface, huh?
BTW, same interface works perfectly on my ancient XP laptop. On that one the on board FireWire burnt out, and I'm going through a no name PCMCIA to FireWire adapter.
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- KVRAF
- 1929 posts since 4 Nov, 2004 from Manchester
Have you tired switching the TI driver over the legacy one?Aural Chaos wrote:In the same (or similar) boat- just inherited a Dell running Vista with no on board FireWire. Bought an express card adapter that DOES have a TI chip, but the Firebox emits pops every now and then.
http://www.focusrite.com/answerbase/en/ ... hp?id=1030
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- KVRian
- 1122 posts since 12 Mar, 2005
I would say that USB is fine for audio. I've got a 44VSL that does great at low latencies, even with a 3 year old laptop.Marv Dave wrote:Thanks everyone for all the replies. Very helpful.
@plastic i was beginning to think along these lines, myself.
Would anyone else agree that USB external soundcards are good enough? For some reason i had this vague impression in the back of my mind somewhere that firewire was supposed to better for some reason?
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- KVRian
- 1107 posts since 31 Oct, 2002 from the high desert
thanks Kaine! That did improve things a bit. There wasn't a driver that said "legacy", but one did seem a bit more generic, so I switched to that one.Kaine wrote:Have you tired switching the TI driver over the legacy one?Aural Chaos wrote:In the same (or similar) boat- just inherited a Dell running Vista with no on board FireWire. Bought an express card adapter that DOES have a TI chip, but the Firebox emits pops every now and then.
http://www.focusrite.com/answerbase/en/ ... hp?id=1030
Still get a spike every now and then, but it's close enough for rock'n'roll.
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- KVRAF
- 1929 posts since 4 Nov, 2004 from Manchester
Great stuff.Aural Chaos wrote: thanks Kaine! That did improve things a bit. There wasn't a driver that said "legacy", but one did seem a bit more generic, so I switched to that one.
Still get a spike every now and then, but it's close enough for rock'n'roll.
Try disabling your network (wi-fi/ethernet) whilst your working and see if that nails the last of the clicks.
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- KVRist
- 489 posts since 6 Feb, 2010
What do you refer to with "NI Kontrol"...?jcschild wrote: NI Kontrol, Lynx, M-Audio Ultra 8R, and Presonus VSL series to some degree have very good drivers
S2, S4, Komplete Audio, the old ones, could you be a bit more specific...?