KVR Audio

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:11 pm

Even though it went out of style in like 1996 I love playing with the pitch of breakbeats within a pattern, such as pitch staircases and pitch drops, pitchbending and playing samples on different keys in a traditional "tape style" sampler or a tracker.

Now I've tried pitchfunk and pitchwheel and neither really jumped out at me like the sampler pitching did. My demo with pitchfunk was limited since I forgot about it (I was a bit underwhelmed when I first tried it, I'd like to try again, but the demo ist kaput).

Pitchwheel does a great job preserving transients and provides formant shifting as well, but has a lot less sound mangling options other than that. It just doesn't sound "heavy" when you go down like the sampler/tracker does. I've tried coupling the formants or leaving them fixed. It sounds excellent for what it does but it just doesn't take me "there".

I'm in half a mind to just get pitchfunk and spend more time with it, but then I wonder if pitchwheel would be better because of it's treatment of transients. Maybe I just haven't demoed them properly.

Does anyone have any experience with these plugins and/or getting this kind of sound out of them?

ariston · Post by **ariston** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:28 pm

Well, I can't think of the effects that you're referencing - I don't listen to a lot of electronic music, heh - but Pitchfunk is a very deep effect. With a choice of several pitch-shifting algorithms, the ability to change the effect routing, and those marvellous LFOs, I'd be surprised if you couldn't get the sound you want and more. You can also degrade the sound/pitch-shifting nicely, add aliasing to get that old-school vibe, and you have the option to effect in stereo, M/S, or L/R, which is really cool.

I'm pretty sure Dave will grant you some more demo time if you write him an e-mail.

As for an alternative, the obvious one that comes to mind is AD's Discord 3. It is good for setting up something quickly - Pitchfunk needs a bit more attention, although the presets are very good starting points.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:28 pm

an oldie, but was good for beat pitching:

http://www.mathons.com/chopitch.htm

justin3am · Post by **justin3am** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:50 pm

Most pitch shifters use de-glitching methods to smooth out pops and clicks at loop points. This kills transients. When you pitch up audio in a sampler, you are actually changing the playback speed, so transients are preserved.

If you just want to change the pitch of a break beat but not the speed, process the sample with an transient shapper and pitch shifter (I use U-He's Uhbik G, Sound Toys' Crystalizer, Guitar Rig's pitch shifters and an Eventide Pitch Factor) in parallel. Use the transient shaper to get rid of the decay stages of each drum hit. This way you are layering the pitch shifted signal with just the attack parts of the dry signal. This will help to preserve the punch without sounding obviously layered.

Or you could use something like Ableton Live or Recycle to slice your breaks. It all depends on what kind of sound you are looking for.

NAD · Post by **NAD** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:51 pm

You may find this useful:
http://akaizer.blogspot.co.il/

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:30 pm

Thanks for the suggestions! At the moment I'm basically using the "recycle" method (only I do my chops by ear/eye because it's fun) and thus you can pitchbend without the rhythm going out of time. The problem with this comes from the fact that the envelope changes with the playback speed and as you go up, you get gappy sound where each sample can't last until the next beat as it's over quickly. There are ways to counteract this such as using pingpong looping etc and each one has it's own sound and vibe.

I guess what I'm really asking is: what is the most punchy and dynamic pitch shifter?

NAD · Post by **NAD** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:43 pm

Sendy wrote:I guess what I'm really asking is: what is the most punchy and dynamic pitch shifter?

What did you use on "TELEPORT, MARIO!"?
Reminds me (fondly) of this track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNdZxoGKEPw

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:50 pm

NAD wrote:
Sendy wrote:I guess what I'm really asking is: what is the most punchy and dynamic pitch shifter?
What did you use on "TELEPORT, MARIO!"?
Reminds me (fondly) of this track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNdZxoGKEPw

That was Harmor. Good idea, I'll see what results that gives on breakbeats.

justin3am · Post by **justin3am** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:55 pm

Sendy wrote:I guess what I'm really asking is: what is the most punchy and dynamic pitch shifter?

I have never found one that I have been happy with for the kind of thing you are describing. I do use pitch shifters on breaks but using the artifacts and glitches as an effect.

That said, if your goal is mangling sounds, you may want to try the Eventide H3000 Factory plug-in or any of the ones I mentioned in my first post. Pitch Funk is also very good.

DaveGamble · Post by **DaveGamble** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:21 pm

Send me email, demo extension is no problem.

Dave.

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:38 pm

DaveGamble wrote:Send me email, demo extension is no problem.

Dave.

Ok, done. Thanks!

Ah_Dziz · Post by **Ah_Dziz** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:23 pm

Old school samplers didn't have granular pitch shifting in real time. Just use any software sample and the pitch wheel. you want to change the playback speed of the sound along with the pitch. there are some buffer manipulation plugins that will allow you to achieve these effects without loading your loop into a sampler. Try out artillery, dblue glitch, NI the finger, effectrix, and stuff like that. they should get you much closer. you want a non granular change of pitch.

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:15 am

Just got Discord3 and I like it but haven't done much beat mangling with it. Here's a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzc2IkVikdY

samsam · Post by **samsam** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:28 am

I use PitchFunk for my mangling needs. While I don't fully understand what's going on half the time with this plug, the trial and error results I can tease out after a bit of work are generally very usable.

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:37 am

Ah_Dziz wrote:Old school samplers didn't have granular pitch shifting in real time. Just use any software sample and the pitch wheel. you want to change the playback speed of the sound along with the pitch. there are some buffer manipulation plugins that will allow you to achieve these effects without loading your loop into a sampler. Try out artillery, dblue glitch, NI the finger, effectrix, and stuff like that. they should get you much closer. you want a non granular change of pitch.

I agree. Beat mangling in 1996 didn't involve any of the fancy modern techniques listed in this thread. The best you could hope for was slicing up a beat with Recycle, uploading the slices to your hardware sampler, and rearranging the associated MIDI data. Pitch shifting only amounted to playing a sample at a different rate, so it would play faster (higher) or slower (lower). Also common was resampling at a very low rate like 10khz for that bitcrushing sound we all know and love.

The first mainstream sampler capable of any modern mangling techniques was the Roland VP-9000, which wasn't released until 2000.

Another technique from those days would be to play the sample back through an external pitch shifter. Oh, and Turbosynth, can't forget that!

Best pitchshifter for beat mangling?