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Wave Arts Panorama - opinions, alternatives?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion

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KTlin
KVRist
 
194 posts since 20 Jul, 2009

Postby KTlin; Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:24 am Wave Arts Panorama - opinions, alternatives?

Hi guys

Anyone using this one? What do you reckon?

From their website: "Panorama is a specialized tool for creating stunningly realistic 3-D audio scenes using regular stereo sound. The DSP technology in Panorama reproduces psychoacoustic sound localization and distance cues, allowing you to pan sounds in three dimensions: not just left and right, but up, down, front, back, near, and far. Panorama combines HRTF-based audio panning with acoustic environment modeling...."

Sounds very interesting, so I downloaded the demo and tried it. Unfortunately it didn't convince me. I played a lot with the various parameters, but in the end it sounded like any other reverb. Actually, the reverb module sounds quite bad IMO.

Do you guys know any other alternatives for "3D" positioning (HRTF-based or not), preferably free or not very expensive?

Thanks
Last edited by KTlin on Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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djanthonyw
KVRAF
 
6703 posts since 20 Jul, 2004, from Boston

Postby djanthonyw; Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:28 am

If you use Logic, it has these features built in.
You are currently reading my signature.
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KTlin
KVRist
 
194 posts since 20 Jul, 2009

Postby KTlin; Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:49 pm

Thanks, but I'm on PC. I use Live.
tweiss2000
KVRist
 
160 posts since 31 Mar, 2004, from Nuremberg

Postby tweiss2000; Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:00 pm

you might have a look at longcat 3D
http://www.longcat.fr/web/
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KTlin
KVRist
 
194 posts since 20 Jul, 2009

Postby KTlin; Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:41 am

Thanks. Anything else?
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Kaboom75
KVRian
 
1433 posts since 4 Sep, 2011, from England

Postby Kaboom75; Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:28 am

Just tried the H3D demo wow thanks Tweiss for the headsup.

I wasn't going to buy anymore 32bit plugs but if theirs no better than this I will get it. Reminds me of the barber shop 3D audio on youtube.

Panorama was good with the reverb parts off and ValhallaDSP Vintage added after the 3D effect.
Last edited by Kaboom75 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
Neon Breath
KVRAF
 
1778 posts since 15 Sep, 2010

Postby Neon Breath; Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:44 am

KTlin wrote:Hi guys

Do you guys know any other alternatives for "3D" positioning (HRTF-based or not), preferably free or not very expensive?

Thanks


Not free, but pretty good ones:

H3D
http://www.longcat.fr/web/en/prods/h3d-plugin

GRM Tools Doppler
http://www.inagrm.com/doppler

Soundhack +binaural
http://www.soundhack.com/spectral-shapers/
__________________________________________________
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http://soundcloud.com/sleeping-on-lotus-ashes
http://landofthedrones.blogspot.ca
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Arrested Developer
KVRist
 
222 posts since 8 Apr, 2012, from Vienna

Postby Arrested Developer; Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:18 pm

I bought waves arts panorama several years ago for a binaural project.
Some aspects of the 3D- spatialization works quite good with the big problem that everything had the tendency to come from behind (also the stuff that should be in front of the listener).
Anyhow, since 3D perception is a learned function (ears are only 2 channels), this may be subjective.

Apart from that, the plug in colors the signals in a way i don't really like.

So in my opinion, the best solution for this tasks by far is the use of a dummy head microphone.
The difference in quality is huge...
dusted william
KVRAF
 
4702 posts since 17 Dec, 2000

Postby dusted william; Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:30 pm

djanthonyw wrote:If you use Logic, it has these features built in.


Are they true binaural effects like H3D?

dw
Neon Breath
KVRAF
 
1778 posts since 15 Sep, 2010

Postby Neon Breath; Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:36 pm

Arrested Developer wrote:.

So in my opinion, the best solution for this tasks by far is the use of a dummy head microphone.
The difference in quality is huge...


By far indeed, totally agree unfortunatly. Would love to have a plugin that easily & perfectly mimic binaural recordings, but I don't know any altough the ones I listed are pretty interesting. But not binauraly perfect :P
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Breeze
KVRAF
 
1657 posts since 13 Oct, 2002

Postby Breeze; Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:12 pm

I've struggled with these plugins for a couple of years and nothing is really convincing. Anything HRTF-based is based on an "idealized" ear, which is rarely the same as our own. I gave Longcat a shot a while back and the automated movement stuff is really cool, but again, the 3D effect isn't 100% convincing. Flux's Ircam HEar, is much the same (it'll reduce 5.1 to binaural). Iosono's Anymix Pro upscales to multichannel but doesn't offer any binaural processing. I was curious about Panorama...

The only convincing binaural 3D processing I've heard is from Q-sound, and the barber shop track on youtube is a QSound Demo. But they quickly got out of the software plugin business (they had a few DX plugins available over a decade ago) in favor of big-time OEM software and hardware implementations.

The interesting thing about QSound is their technology doesn't seem copyrighted. So either they never got around to copyrighting their tech, or they're doing something clever but relatively unoriginal. I get the feeling they just carefully mapped out spatial positioning with delays, distance attenuation and Fq attenuation. The site is worth a visit but it seems rather inactive (the latest news item is from 2010). They have an online shop for a few software products, but it seems dead.

BTW: what binaural processing features are built into Logic?
pinki
KVRist
 
418 posts since 2 Nov, 2006

Postby pinki; Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:02 pm

Panorama is great- on headphones.
Mescalito
KVRist
 
119 posts since 7 Mar, 2004, from Germany

Postby Mescalito; Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:51 pm

"spatial audio designer" is good but unfortunately very expensive

http://headphone-surround.de/products
markanini
KVRist
 
165 posts since 25 Jul, 2004, from Malmö, Sweden

Postby markanini; Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:35 am

Space360
Kickhaas

*rant mode on*
IMHO there should be more plugins like these. My gripe with exisiting ones (or the ones I've seen)has to do with the interface. As an example let's say I want the plugin to start with a snare source is in a open space. Now I want to add a back wall and a "mic" in between. I would have lost count of the amount of paramaters that would have been adjusted by now. Not to mention the pain of drawing sources and mics in a graphic box and trying to get things centered/symmetrical. It's no wonder most people reach for something like a plate emulation in this situation. Instant gratification but you loose some control.There's doesnt seem to be a middle just yet.
*rant mode on*
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KTlin
KVRist
 
194 posts since 20 Jul, 2009

Postby KTlin; Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:52 am

Thanks for the suggestions, markanini!
Never heard of those two. I'm gonna check them out.

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