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KVRer
 
14 posts since 5 Sep, 2011, from Denmark

Postby Esben_Andersen; Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:57 pm

Hi,

First of all: Thank you for a great product! This has filled out so many gaps in my use of my DAW. I purchased Mux a couple of days a go and have been doing almost nothing but patching since then. These are my questions and issues so far:

1. Sample Player Polyphony?

I've build a patch to use as a sampler in Maschine instead of its own (which sucks big time). I'm super happy about the result - ie. I've setup a rather nice humanizing section - but there's one problem I can't come about. Unfortunately it's a rather big one.

The sample player can only play one sample at a time. I don't mean that it can't layer samples (I use multiple sample players or the multisampler for that). The thing is that every time a new event enters my patch it cuts off the previous sample even though it hadn't finished. I didn't notice it until I was way into patching it so I tried starting over with just an event going into a sample player on to an audio output. Still same result. I've been looking for a long time for a module that will keep the same sample playing on top of itself. I noticed that the MuDrums patch can do this, so it must be possible. Which module should I use? And is it possible to set a fixed amount of samples that can play at the same time? I guess what I'm looking for is just a mono/polyphony voice option like there is in almost all synthesizers.

Here's a screenshot of my patch:

Image

http://imgur.com/ig0AhCS

What am I missing?

2. I am VERY limited by the fact that there's only 16 parameters available within the deep editor. This is a big problem with Maschine because it can only pick up on those 16 parameters in its midi learn mode, which makes it possible to tweak the parameters with the Maschine Controller. Is there a way to add more parameters? Or does anyone know of another way to make Maschine acknowledge other messages from Mux than those 16 parameters? If there's not then please add many more soon. It really limits my use of MUX right now.

3. Please unlock the deep view of the protected patches! It's alright that users can't change them (although I don't entirely understand why not - this is just the kind of program that encourages that), but it would be so much easier to troubleshoot if one could see how those patches were build up.

All the best,

Esben
soundcloud.com/rangleklods
Banned

Postby > DiGiT <; Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:41 pm

you can communicate midi from many maschine instruments to a single instance of mux, with a little bit of latency. there are a few plugin sets that allow point to point midi transmission...
KVRAF
 
5281 posts since 24 Jun, 2008, from Europe
    

Postby mutools; Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:19 am

Esben_Andersen wrote:1. Sample Player Polyphony? The sample player can only play one sample at a time. Which module should I use?


Put the sampler in a Poly Synth!
Also see http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/mux/polysynth.html

And is it possible to set a fixed amount of samples that can play at the same time?


Currently the Poly Synth uses a fixed polyphony of 48 notes. That's per Poly Synth.

2. I am VERY limited by the fact that there's only 16 parameters available within the deep editor.


Good news: The next MUX VST release (ETA = February) will double the number of meta-parameters to 32.
KVRer
 
14 posts since 5 Sep, 2011, from Denmark

Postby Esben_Andersen; Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:06 am

Sweet. I got it working with the polysynth!!!

I hope you include a polyphony choice within the next update as well! Please. It would be incredibly useful and CPU saving. I know most of the CPU issues can be avoided using a proper envelope, but it often give interesting results to be able to set the amount of voices. And I'm thinking everything from 1 voice to 48. With a 'choke last note' or 'choke lowest note' option. And possibly a fade-out in milli seconds option as well. That would make me a very happy camper! :) And it would be amazing both for using polysynth as a regular synth as well as a drum sampler.

Also sweet that you add more parameters in the next update! Hope it's out soon. I would suggest though, while your at it, to go up to 64 parameters. That would make Mux even more outstanding to use with Maschine! Every single parameter hardware tweakable!

Now we're at it I have one more issues. When I customize the front panel layout of my patches the colours often disappears from certain modules. Sometimes it's not even possible to give a module a colour.

And a more technical question. Does Mux support multicore cpu usage? And would it possibly decrease it's overall cpu usage? Are you thinking about implementing it?

Again, thank you for a great product! Can't wait to see the future updates.

All the best,

Esben
soundcloud.com/rangleklods
KVRAF
 
5281 posts since 24 Jun, 2008, from Europe
    

Postby mutools; Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:56 am

Esben_Andersen wrote:Also sweet that you add more parameters in the next update! Hope it's out soon. I would suggest though, while your at it, to go up to 64 parameters. That would make Mux even more outstanding to use with Maschine! Every single parameter hardware tweakable!


Please elaborate. I can't immediately find any info about "64 parameters" on the NI website.

Now we're at it I have one more issues. When I customize the front panel layout of my patches the colours often disappears from certain modules. Sometimes it's not even possible to give a module a colour.


Is this repeatable? If yes what steps do i have to take to repeat such coloring problem?

And a more technical question. Does Mux support multicore cpu usage?
No, not on MUX level. MuLab does have multi-core support.

And would it possibly decrease it's overall cpu usage?
Yes, but at the same time it might interfere with the host's MC implementation. Just like other plugins with MC interfere with other host with MC. The bottomline there is that if too many cpu consumer objects all want to speed up their processing using MC it will result in a slower system because the 'fight' for cpu costs cpu time.

Are you thinking about implementing it?


I can't answer the question yet, i mean i can't say yes or no at this point. To be evaluated later.
KVRer
 
14 posts since 5 Sep, 2011, from Denmark

Postby Esben_Andersen; Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:06 am

Totally understandable about not going for multicore support. It doesn't seem like Mux uses that much CPU as it is now, so it's all good.

What I mean by the 64 parameters is just that you can add up to 96 parameters to Maschines Controller using the knobs (there are 8) and changing page for these (there's a maximum of 16 pages I think). So my point was just that instead of going from 16 to 32 parameter knobs in Mux's deep mode, why not go as far as 64. That would mean I could control every single parameter in my Mux drum sampler patch with the Maschine Controller. And that would be freaking awesome! :)

About the colouring problem: To be honest I wouldn't know what you should do to replicate the issue. It just happened from the very first time I started trying to customize the front panel. Right now three modules can hold their colour, and the rest of them loses their when I try to give another module a colour or move modules around in the front panel.

And then a few more questions... :D I've spent all my time using this plug-in since I bought it, which brings about quite a few of them. Thanks for replying at such a fast pace.

1. Is it possible to somehow get direct access to the sample browser window from the front panel. Right now I have to click the sample module (which I dragged out to the front panel) and then click the empty sample window. It would be even easier to have direct front panel access to the sample browser for a given sample player in ones patch. Especially since I moved all other parameters from the sample player to the front panel.

2. Are you thinking about adding 'hold' to the envelope generator? I've missed that feature a few times.

3. Undo/Redo. I don't know if it's just in my setup it doesn't work or if it's not a feature in Mux. If it isn't that would be my first and biggest wish for future updates!

4. I've encountered a very big bug about 10 times now where this error shows up: "Internal thread loop time-out error @ REP[12]". The only thing to do when it happens is reboot. And do so by forcing all applications to close. The error has happened when I've inserted Artillery2 and Effectrix (both Sugar Bytes) into my drum sampler patch. Actually the error happens even before I've inserted any events or audio into the plugins. Do you have any idea what this error is? I would really like to use Artillery2 within my Drum Sampler patch because it has an amazing time stretcher that can be event controlled. And the weird thing is that it loads up fine half the time I put it into Mux. The other half of the time everything freezes.

All the best,

Esben
soundcloud.com/rangleklods
KVRist
 
444 posts since 2 Mar, 2009

Postby AndreasD; Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:16 am

About a Hold segment in the ADSR, try the Multipoint Envelope.
Create the Attack and Hold segments, then a short segment that you loop, which creates the Sustain, then the Release.
User avatar
KVRAF
 
4450 posts since 8 Feb, 2003, from London, UK
 

Postby pljones; Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:54 am

(4) could be a threading issue caused by both host and plug-in trying to provide multi-core support and clashing over some resource allocation that's then blocking the MUX thread. (MUX then throws the error.) Is that possible and if so, do the plug-ins have the option to disable multi-core?
KVRAF
 
5281 posts since 24 Jun, 2008, from Europe
    

Postby mutools; Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:37 am

Esben_Andersen wrote:What I mean by the 64 parameters is just that you can add up to 96 parameters to Maschines Controller using the knobs (there are 8) and changing page for these (there's a maximum of 16 pages I think). So my point was just that instead of going from 16 to 32 parameter knobs in Mux's deep mode, why not go as far as 64. That would mean I could control every single parameter in my Mux drum sampler patch with the Maschine Controller. And that would be freaking awesome! :)


Thanks for the extra info. I understand and will take it into account for future developments.

About the colouring problem: To be honest I wouldn't know what you should do to replicate the issue. It just happened from the very first time I started trying to customize the front panel. Right now three modules can hold their colour, and the rest of them loses their when I try to give another module a colour or move modules around in the front panel.


You can set a color for each module in the session. This color will be used for coloring the track header and the parts. Also the module box in the deep modular editor will use that color. But the module buttons on a MUX front panel can have its own color which is inpendent from the module it represents. Because that way you can make a static design for the front panel. So when you right-click a module button on a MUX front panel (assuming the front panel is unlocked for editing) then you have the "Choose Color" function which is about the module color itself, and "Edit Looks" which is about the front panel button. Maybe you did a "Choose Color" and expected the front panel button to be colored that way?

1. Is it possible to somehow get direct access to the sample browser window from the front panel.


Not yet, but it's a common feature request, also a logical one. Well i see this on a more abstract/general level: Adding more specific sub-module editor parts to the front panel. I regard this as an important FR. It will take some serious extra R&D though, and i can't make any promises yet.

2. Are you thinking about adding 'hold' to the envelope generator? I've missed that feature a few times.


As others suggested please have a look at the Multi-Point Envelope.

3. Undo/Redo. I don't know if it's just in my setup it doesn't work or if it's not a feature in Mux. If it isn't that would be my first and biggest wish for future updates!


Why do you think it doesn't work? Note that not yet all functions are undoable, especially on MUX level. It's certainly the plan to extend the undo/redo system. In the next MUX VST release all parameter edits are undoable. Looking forward to also make deletes undoable/redoable.

4. I've encountered a very big bug about 10 times now where this error shows up: "Internal thread loop time-out error @ REP[12]". The only thing to do when it happens is reboot. And do so by forcing all applications to close. The error has happened when I've inserted Artillery2 and Effectrix (both Sugar Bytes) into my drum sampler patch. Actually the error happens even before I've inserted any events or audio into the plugins. Do you have any idea what this error is? I would really like to use Artillery2 within my Drum Sampler patch because it has an amazing time stretcher that can be event controlled. And the weird thing is that it loads up fine half the time I put it into Mux. The other half of the time everything freezes.


I've plugged in Artillery2 in MuLab 5 but can't repeat the issue yet. But you're talking about plugging it into MUX Vst 1.2, right? If yes which host are you using?
KVRian
 
576 posts since 28 Mar, 2008, from U.K.

Postby sl23; Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:19 am

I had that Internal Thread error on one occasion when starting Mulab.
Live for an ideal and leave no place in the mind for anything else.

Portugal property for sale
KVRAF
 
5281 posts since 24 Jun, 2008, from Europe
    

Postby mutools; Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:41 am

Before or after you chose a session?
KVRian
 
576 posts since 28 Mar, 2008, from U.K.

Postby sl23; Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:40 am

Hmm... I think before. But can't be sure now, sorry.
Live for an ideal and leave no place in the mind for anything else.

Portugal property for sale
KVRer
 
14 posts since 5 Sep, 2011, from Denmark

Postby Esben_Andersen; Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:18 am

Regarding "Internal thread loop time-out error @ REP[12]":

I run Cubase 7 64-bit. Then I use Mux 64-bit as a sampler within Maschine. This means that I run at least 16 instances of my Mux patch. However, I know that has nothing to do with the error as I remember it has happened when I've had just 2 instances of my Mux Drum Sampler patch up and running in Maschine. It has still only happened with Artillery2 and Effectrix. The problem is just that Artillery2 is perhaps the most important plugin for me to use within the Drum Sampler as it has a midi event triggered time stretching function. And is uses almost no CPU.

There's no function within the Artillery2 interface to disable multicore (I'm not even sure it supports multicore). Do you have any idea what causes the issue? As I said, about half the time I load up Artillery2 within Mux there's no problem. And I guess that just makes the issue even weirder, right?

I'm glad that you're working on improvements regarding adding more modules to the front panel as well as more parameters and better undo/redo. For now I can live without 'Hold' in the standard envelope. Sorry, but the workaround just seems a bit to tedious. Hope you'll think about adding 'Hold' to the regular envelope module.

One last thing: Would you consider looking through my Drum Sampler Patch to see if you can spot some improvements regarding CPU usage and connections that could be made easier? It would be much appreciated.

I'll probably be back with more questions soon. Consider it a good thing! Mux is awesome and I love using it. Ie. I've build a wonderful Harmonizer by using 4 instances of MMultibandHarmonizer and spreading out the midi so I can control each voice individually. It works like a charm and has totally made me forget the sorry fact that Antares' Harmonizer plugin isn't 64-bit yet. I'm spreading the Mux-word these days! :D

All the best,

Esben
soundcloud.com/rangleklods
KVRAF
 
5281 posts since 24 Jun, 2008, from Europe
    

Postby mutools; Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:20 am

Esben_Andersen wrote:Regarding "Internal thread loop time-out error @ REP[12]": I run Cubase 7 64-bit. Then I use Mux 64-bit as a sampler within Maschine. ... It has still only happened with Artillery2 and Effectrix. ...
There's no function within the Artillery2 interface to disable multicore (I'm not even sure it supports multicore). Do you have any idea what causes the issue?


No not yet. But i've taken note and will look into this deeper soon when focusing on the next MUX Vst version.

As I said, about half the time I load up Artillery2 within Mux there's no problem. And I guess that just makes the issue even weirder, right?


Indeed. As soon as a problem is repeatable (here in the dev lab) then solution is close.

One last thing: Would you consider looking through my Drum Sampler Patch to see if you can spot some improvements regarding CPU usage and connections that could be made easier? It would be much appreciated.


I'm sorry but i simply can't afford that. Note that these are VERY tough times surviving business-wise and i must be very careful with every minute i spend. And believe me it are already looong working days here. With passion for music and tech, but there is this realistic aspect: I really must generate enough turnover otherwise there will be no money to create MuLab 6 or MUX 3. Hope you understand. Hope you appreciate all the support here via the forum already. That's something already, right?! ;) And i'm sure you have the intelligence to think logically and optimize your MUX patches cpu-wise. Two quick tips: 1) The fewer modules the better. 2) Make sure you indicate a "Main Envelope" on Poly Synth level cfr the Poly Synth docs. Oh, in that cpu optimization context, i've taken note about adding a CPU usage monitor on MUX level. That would be helpful in such situations. So it's on the wishlist now.

I'm spreading the Mux-word these days! :D


That is very much appreciated! And it's even the best you can do for yourself too wrt the future of MuLab and the MUX because the more people get to know MuTools and support the further R&D by buying user licenses, the more you'll get out of your own MUX user license. Anyway, Thanks again!

I'm much looking forward to the point MuTools on Facebook gets 1000 likes. Still some likes to go! Please keep on spreading the Mu vibes 8) Hopefully 1000 before summer?
User avatar
KVRist
 
425 posts since 4 Oct, 2012, from Utah
    

Postby dakkra; Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:22 pm

mutools wrote:Hopefully 1000 before summer?


Already pointing my friends to you!
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