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This just in! "When it comes to sub-bass, I hate all limiters."

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

User avatar
mandolarian
KVRAF
 
2536 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from Raincoast of Grayland

Postby mandolarian; Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:51 am

padillac wrote:
bmanic wrote:So, your solution? Don't go for loudness and you can have all the sub bass in the world! :D


Would you say this applies mostly to mixing? As in, get the mix right without aiming for loudness, and then let a mastering engineer deal with the problem of making a sub-bassy tune loud? I know that's the general advice anyway but I'm asking specifically about the problem of getting sub-bass loud.


Possibly a stupid question, but what are you monitoring the sub-bass with? If you don't have a wide-range, high power monitor system and a big room to allow those 35+ foot wavelengths some breathing space, hard to tell when you have enough sub-bass. Although, your next door neighbours might be able to tell you. :D
perception: the stuff reality is made of.
padillac
KVRist
 
343 posts since 27 Nov, 2011

Postby padillac; Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:15 am

mandolarian wrote:
padillac wrote:
bmanic wrote:So, your solution? Don't go for loudness and you can have all the sub bass in the world! :D


Would you say this applies mostly to mixing? As in, get the mix right without aiming for loudness, and then let a mastering engineer deal with the problem of making a sub-bassy tune loud? I know that's the general advice anyway but I'm asking specifically about the problem of getting sub-bass loud.


Possibly a stupid question, but what are you monitoring the sub-bass with? If you don't have a wide-range, high power monitor system and a big room to allow those 35+ foot wavelengths some breathing space, hard to tell when you have enough sub-bass. Although, your next door neighbours might be able to tell you. :D


well.....I have mackie hr824s which according to their specs go down to 39hz. The lowest note I ever put in my songs is an E which is at 41hz. That's the low E on an 88-key piano, as well as the low note on a bass.

My room isn't treated so honestly I couldn't tell you wtf I'm hearing w/ the sub half the time. Mostly I'm just feeling it, making sure it has weight to it, and hope for the best. I've been told by two mastering engineers that it's easier for them to turn the sub up than turn it down, so they've said if anything I should err on a quieter sub so they can work with it more easily.

For parties, we rent an 18" subwoofer, so we have plenty of sub :)
User avatar
mandolarian
KVRAF
 
2536 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from Raincoast of Grayland

Postby mandolarian; Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:34 am

Ah, ok. The 824s low bass doesn't loosen many teeth or smack with kidney-busting kick. They don't output a lot of energy in the lowest octave even with room gain. Maybe consider treating your room and adding a dedicated (non-party) sub.

Or as you say, just make it the mastering engineer's problem. :D
perception: the stuff reality is made of.
Johnny!
KVRist
 
424 posts since 21 Jun, 2010

Postby Johnny!; Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:34 am

rifftrax wrote:Try loudmax ;)

Really excellent for zero-distortion limiting on even the most formidable material. You'll lose a tiny bit of punch but it works where most limiters fail if you can accept that trade-off.

Awesome signature by the way ... lol :hihi:


thank you for this! now I can have something very similar to Renoise's Maximizer in Studio One :)
User avatar
bmanic
KVRAF
 
7214 posts since 3 Feb, 2003, from Finland, Espoo

Postby bmanic; Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:01 pm

padillac wrote:
bmanic wrote:So, your solution? Don't go for loudness and you can have all the sub bass in the world! :D


Would you say this applies mostly to mixing? As in, get the mix right without aiming for loudness, and then let a mastering engineer deal with the problem of making a sub-bassy tune loud? I know that's the general advice anyway but I'm asking specifically about the problem of getting sub-bass loud.


You can't. Period.

The more and deeper bass you have the more a limiter will choke on it or make it distort. There is no way around this fact. It's written in the unfortunate digital laws of ours.

Like I said earlier, there is only a compromise to be made. How loud do you need it? Then decide how much you can add bass. Or vice versa. Add as much bass as you need, then see how loud it gets. You can not have both massive amounts of subs and incredibly loud record. They are mutually exclusive.. that is unless you like a completely distorted mess.

If you have no problems with distortion then go as "loud" as you want. Perhaps some day we'll all listen to white noise. :)

Seriously though, I hope that we in the future have "intelligent" playback mediums that can automatically adjust track volume depending on material, so that everything plays at equal loudness no matter what. This is the only way to get rid of the loudness war. It'd get rid of it real quick too as the tracks that are not squashed to death would sound way more punchy and have much louder bass. There are virtually no negatives to having a track with lots of dynamic impact whereas there are massive losses to be had with squashing everything to death.

Cheers!
bManic
"Remember the iLokalypse June 10 - June 22 2013 - Dominus"
User avatar
mandolarian
KVRAF
 
2536 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from Raincoast of Grayland

Postby mandolarian; Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:13 pm

bmanic wrote:Seriously though, I hope that we in the future have "intelligent" playback mediums that can automatically adjust track volume depending on material, so that everything plays at equal loudness no matter what. This is the only way to get rid of the loudness war. It'd get rid of it real quick too as the tracks that are not squashed to death would sound way more punchy and have much louder bass. There are virtually no negatives to having a track with lots of dynamic impact whereas there are massive losses to be had with squashing everything to death.

Cheers!
bManic


That would be brilliant! It really would be 21st century technology. Can we lobby to get it in the mp37 spec, so our great, great grandchildren can get the benefit of something that should have been implemented 15 years ago? :D
perception: the stuff reality is made of.
bill45
KVRian
 
1342 posts since 14 Jun, 2006

Postby bill45; Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:00 am

Isn't prol known for not messing with the low end.
I would think, the waves L3 and L16 would be good at preserving subs.
I'd like to know how they're getting the bottom end on this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcxp3hGVr-E
User avatar
Sendy
KVRAF
 
4417 posts since 20 Jul, 2010

Postby Sendy; Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:41 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:
Burillo wrote:i usually don't have sub-bass at all. HP everything below 55-60Hz.
This.


It's kinda sad to assume everyone'll be listening on earbuds and cheap PC speakers. 20-80Hz is the "power" range of frequencies. Even breakbeat/accoustic kicks can sound sterile to me when highpassed. It all depends whether you're going for bassy kick or bassy bassline obviously, but I'd leave at least *something* to fill out that region, because of it's psychological impact.
http://sendy.bandcamp.com/releases < My new album at Bandcamp!
User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
 
33622 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass

Postby vurt; Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:51 am

bmanic wrote:Perhaps some day we'll all listen to white noise. :)


and on that day i shall weep with joy :cry:
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