2nd computer as a VST host
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 15 posts since 22 Dec, 2011
I have a 4 year old Macbook Pro I've been using for work. The machine has Logic Pro on it that I've never used. It has 4 GB memory and a small internal drive but I can fire-wire a bigger 7200 rpm drive. I guess that makes for an ok system but the machine is getting old. I play classical piano and will want to do lots of heavy VSTs i.e. grand piano, orchestral etc.
I was an old Opcode Vision user which is now gone away. I'm not new to music production but I'm new to all the current products including Logic so I'm not committed to anything. Learning curve matters...I don't want to use the most complex product.
One strategy is I could host Logic on the laptop and network a second Windows machine as a heavy duty VST host. What do you think of this strategy? I recall a product called FXTeleport (maybe there are others). Any compatibility issues networking a Windows VST host with a Mac DAW host?
The other approach would be to just chuck the Macbook (give it to my daughter) and go buy twice the Windows machine for half the price. This would then lead me into something like Digital Performer (now that it's on Windows) or Studio One (maybe even a reincarnation of Tracktion?) with a lower cost heavy duty computer that can handle all the VSTs I want. BTW, I don't mean to set off a Windows vs. Mac thing...truth is, I'm more comfortable with Windows than the Mac OS. It's just personal preference but I will have trouble bringing myself to buy another high-priced Mac.
Thanks for any thoughts!
I was an old Opcode Vision user which is now gone away. I'm not new to music production but I'm new to all the current products including Logic so I'm not committed to anything. Learning curve matters...I don't want to use the most complex product.
One strategy is I could host Logic on the laptop and network a second Windows machine as a heavy duty VST host. What do you think of this strategy? I recall a product called FXTeleport (maybe there are others). Any compatibility issues networking a Windows VST host with a Mac DAW host?
The other approach would be to just chuck the Macbook (give it to my daughter) and go buy twice the Windows machine for half the price. This would then lead me into something like Digital Performer (now that it's on Windows) or Studio One (maybe even a reincarnation of Tracktion?) with a lower cost heavy duty computer that can handle all the VSTs I want. BTW, I don't mean to set off a Windows vs. Mac thing...truth is, I'm more comfortable with Windows than the Mac OS. It's just personal preference but I will have trouble bringing myself to buy another high-priced Mac.
Thanks for any thoughts!
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- KVRian
- 669 posts since 3 May, 2004
http://code.google.com/p/wormhole2/
I had some successful tests in the past with it.
I had some successful tests in the past with it.
- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
http://www.vsl.co.at/en/211/497/1685/1990/1680.htm
the idea of hosting the instruments - and the fx - as a different process or better yet on a different machine is tried and true. this one transcends the bit kernel and OS platform issues at once, is stable and is the most efficient. additionally jitter free etc. whatever config you wind up with using this makes the most out of your resources.
you might want to look at http://www.vsl.co.at/en/65/71/2536/2186.vsl, particularly Blake Neely who talks about his setup in the most detail.
the idea of hosting the instruments - and the fx - as a different process or better yet on a different machine is tried and true. this one transcends the bit kernel and OS platform issues at once, is stable and is the most efficient. additionally jitter free etc. whatever config you wind up with using this makes the most out of your resources.
you might want to look at http://www.vsl.co.at/en/65/71/2536/2186.vsl, particularly Blake Neely who talks about his setup in the most detail.
- KVRian
- 669 posts since 2 Apr, 2005 from out there
I'd go the second route... yes, you probably CAN do it with that Vienna solution but it's already at € 235, and I can't believe it's always totally hassle free. Buy a Windows PC (you get insanely powerful machines for € 300-400 already), maybe add an ASIO soundcard (or use ASIO4ALL), install Reaper for $60 as a host and you'll be good to go.
- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
it's not totally hassle-free for every user, nor is any host. it requires a certain amount of machine to run and it doesn't support older OSes. one has to know to use static IP... there are a couple of things to understand.
it is entirely hassle-free here. it is however geared for people that require heavy virtual instrument use.
a look around this forum and you see people with all the machine in the world talking about 'freezing' their instruments. I haven't done since I'm using this.
it is entirely hassle-free here. it is however geared for people that require heavy virtual instrument use.
as an empirical matter, one will not be nearly *as* 'good to go' with a DAW as the one host as with hosting in this. It bridges there is no concern about 32 vs 64-bit, its latency compensation is amazing; you can add buffers in the server that do not add lag. you can determine the amount of cores per instance according to what you expect the load to be...I play classical piano and will want to do lots of heavy VSTs i.e. grand piano, orchestral etc.
a look around this forum and you see people with all the machine in the world talking about 'freezing' their instruments. I haven't done since I'm using this.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 15 posts since 22 Dec, 2011
Thanks for the great suggestions.
I assume I could of course not host the Mac VSTs included in Logic 9 (like ESX24, Sculpture, etc.) on a Windows machine, correct?
So the Mac VSTs would stay on the fire-wire drive attached to the Mac Pro hosting Logic?
I appreciate the attraction of just getting a really powerful Windows machine and chucking the whole Mac approach. I used to hear horror stories about weird sound card issues with Windows systems but I assume that is much less common now. I am a university professor and can get educational discounts on everything (SW/HW). The Apple discounts are ok but the bloody Mac Pros are still quite expensive.
I assume I could of course not host the Mac VSTs included in Logic 9 (like ESX24, Sculpture, etc.) on a Windows machine, correct?
So the Mac VSTs would stay on the fire-wire drive attached to the Mac Pro hosting Logic?
I appreciate the attraction of just getting a really powerful Windows machine and chucking the whole Mac approach. I used to hear horror stories about weird sound card issues with Windows systems but I assume that is much less common now. I am a university professor and can get educational discounts on everything (SW/HW). The Apple discounts are ok but the bloody Mac Pros are still quite expensive.
- KVRAF
- 2862 posts since 8 Dec, 2008 from Global Cowboy
PCs and Macs are essentially the same hardware these days but Apple has HUGE profits and those profits don't come from nowhere
That's why so many guys are running Hackintosh systems these days..
One of the things I like about PCs is that you can make the machine exactly how you want it...You can't so that so easily with a Mac..
Also - the price is so much lower for the same hardware !
You can just get a hub and run everything over LAN but you would need a separate audio interface for the slave DAW...
I use MIDI over LAN (http://www.nerds.de/en/ipmidi.html) and it works great...
The main event is running inside the primary DAW and the extra instruments are inside the slave computer....
Perfect
That's why so many guys are running Hackintosh systems these days..
One of the things I like about PCs is that you can make the machine exactly how you want it...You can't so that so easily with a Mac..
Also - the price is so much lower for the same hardware !
You can just get a hub and run everything over LAN but you would need a separate audio interface for the slave DAW...
I use MIDI over LAN (http://www.nerds.de/en/ipmidi.html) and it works great...
The main event is running inside the primary DAW and the extra instruments are inside the slave computer....
Perfect
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- KVRist
- 323 posts since 2 Oct, 2002 from Finland, Europe
i use CopperLan and run a simple 2-chan USB interface outs from my PC to my Mac audio interface (Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 + ADA8000 = 16 inputs)
Run Logic/Numerology as sequencers on main Mac and two slave machines (macbook and PC) this way, plus a lot of outboard hardware. CopperLan takes care of all MIDI via Lan.
and did I mention it's free?
Run Logic/Numerology as sequencers on main Mac and two slave machines (macbook and PC) this way, plus a lot of outboard hardware. CopperLan takes care of all MIDI via Lan.
and did I mention it's free?
- KVRian
- 669 posts since 2 Apr, 2005 from out there
If you want to keep your Logic VSTs then you will have to keep using Logic, that's right. But how about this: you're gonna need that Windows machine anyway, for both solutions. So get one, install a VST host (Reaper with it's generous demo license would be a good choice...) and see if that setup fits your needs in terms of being able to run the heavy-duty instruments you want to play. If yes, fine, if not, proceed with the Mac-Windows-solution.
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- KVRAF
- 1600 posts since 2 Apr, 2006 from Studio City, California
By definition you would not want to use Reaper. Reaper + Midi = insanity. Get VSL Pro, it works and you can use it MAC+PC/PC+MAC on any major DAW
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- KVRian
- 581 posts since 30 Nov, 2008 from Denver CO USA
Audio port and midi over lan, don't know if it would work with copper lan but cool if it does.
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- KVRAF
- 4007 posts since 8 Jan, 2005 from Hamilton, New Zealand
I don't think they ever came up with a Mac vesion of FX teleport, but that would be what you would want, unfortunately.rgemmell wrote: One strategy is I could host Logic on the laptop and network a second Windows machine as a heavy duty VST host. What do you think of this strategy? I recall a product called FXTeleport (maybe there are others). Any compatibility issues networking a Windows VST host with a Mac DAW host?
Wormhole is OK but you have to set it up every time, from memory - you can't just save the settings in your project and have them reload on the slave machine when you reopen that project, as it does with FX teleport.
Your other option is Reaper, which includes the Reamote plugin which does exactly the same thing as FX teleport (but probably better).
Reaper isn't too far away from logic audio, interface-wise (at least the older versions of logic), so you may feel right at home there.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 15 posts since 22 Dec, 2011
Thanks to everyone for your thoughts.C-note wrote:By definition you would not want to use Reaper. Reaper + Midi = insanity. Get VSL Pro, it works and you can use it MAC+PC/PC+MAC on any major DAW
So, it looks like VSL Pro sends audio over ethernet? They call it a midi AND audio LAN - so more than just networking midi data.
It's a little expensive but would avoid routing audio back from the VST host sound card and they throw in their Epic Orchestra samples.
From their web site:
"You can easily route the audio streams of a whole arsenal of computers back to your main machine without the need of external hardware."
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- KVRist
- 360 posts since 23 Feb, 2001 from San Rafael, California
Vienna Ensemble Pro definitely gets my vote as the best solution to host plugins on another computer! The process is very transparent and easy: you open the VePro Plugin in your host and connect to the server running on the other PC (or Mac) over Ethernet. The host transmits midi over the network to the server, the plugins over there generate their sounds and send the audio back to the host - it could not be easier! The server computer doesn't even need a sound card and if you want to save even more hardware, you could connect to it via remote desktop / VNC, then you don't even need a monitor or keyboard/mouse for the server.
The only little downside is that it creates a bit of additional latency (about 2 buffer sizes), so if you want a tight response for live playing, your host needs to be able to run at a small buffer size (256 / 6ms or faster), otherwise it could feel a bit sluggish.
They have a fully functional demo for download, but I think you'll need a spare e-licenser (formerly known as Syncrosoft dongle or Steinberg Key) for the server part.
-Chris
The only little downside is that it creates a bit of additional latency (about 2 buffer sizes), so if you want a tight response for live playing, your host needs to be able to run at a small buffer size (256 / 6ms or faster), otherwise it could feel a bit sluggish.
They have a fully functional demo for download, but I think you'll need a spare e-licenser (formerly known as Syncrosoft dongle or Steinberg Key) for the server part.
-Chris
- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
those are not vsts at all, those are AUs aka .component. They will not install on a windows machine, you would have to find vst (.dll) builds of any AU.rgemmell wrote:I assume I could of course not host the Mac VSTs included in Logic 9 (like ESX24, Sculpture, etc.) on a Windows machine, correct?
Last edited by jancivil on Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.