What is KVR Audio? | Submit News | Advertise | Developer Account

Options (Affects News & Product results only):

OS:
Format:
Include:
Quick Search KVR

"Quick Search" KVR Audio's Product Database, News Items, Developer Listings, Forum Topics and videos here. For advanced Product Database searching please use the full product search. For the forum you can use the phpBB forum search.

To utilize the power of Google you can use the integrated Google Site Search.

Products 0

Developers 0

News 0

Forum 0

Videos 0

Search  

What's Your Opinion On Nebula VST?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

So, vote your opinion if takes too much to write a post:

Get it, you can't live without it
33
44%
Good but limited
25
33%
Avoid at all costs
17
23%
 
Total votes : 75
KVRAF
 
1549 posts since 13 Oct, 2002

Postby Breeze; Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:05 am

I've also used tried using Nebula with some of the pro libraries and have to concur with the other unsatisfied voices here. There's been remarkable strides in the past few years regarding analog emulation in traditional plugin coding that has robbed much of Nebula's magic; it just isn't as relevant as it used to be. IMO, the one area where it could continue to have value for non-programmers is allowing users to "sample" their own equipment but the advanced tools and techniques for doing this have been denied to the common user in order to favour of the commercial library devs.

After much complaining they really improved the website and somewhat streamlined their operations, but the user interface remains clunky and the registrations system remains frustratingly archaic; as others have mentioned, there's no obvious message that tells you there's a registration problem, which for a processor that deals in subtle and sometimes near-imperceptible effects, is ridiculous.

BTW, AFAIK, Nebula Pro can't be resold. Has this changed?
KVRAF
 
3224 posts since 5 May, 2002

Postby electro; Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:25 am

Breeze wrote:I've also used tried using Nebula with some of the pro libraries and have to concur with the other unsatisfied voices here. There's been remarkable strides in the past few years regarding analog emulation in traditional plugin coding that has robbed much of Nebula's magic; it just isn't as relevant as it used to be.


You feel there are coded plugs that can do better preamps and channelstrips than Nebula?

Nebula is for those FX you don't need to tweak so the interface isn't that big a deal. The big deal is the CPU demands.
Intel Core2 Quad CPU + 4 GIG RAM
KVRer
 
21 posts since 13 May, 2004, from Boise, ID

Postby sealsongs; Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:43 am

Well, if nothing else I'd say save it for your stems or final mix. It's just like sprinkling a little magic fairy dust on everything...you'll see.
Friendship is unnecessary, like philosophy, like art... It has no survival value; rather it is one of those things that give value to survival. [C. S. Lewis]
KVRist
 
157 posts since 17 Dec, 2005, from Norway
 

Postby Flandersh; Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:13 am

It is by no mean a user friendly plugin, which is a bad thing I hope they work on in the future. That said I love this plugin; one of the best audio investments I have ever done. I have yet to find another plugin which sound as good as it (thought I find Harrison mixbus to have a sound as good as nebula). I don't use the factory libraries because most of them sounds bad compared to 3rd party libraries; some of the factory chorus and so sounds good though (but one have free vst's which sounds as good as the good chorus and is much more userfriendly).

The sounds of it is for sure often subtle, and that is what drive me too it; often analogue emulations sounds to drastic which make them more coloring than repairing to the songs, and that is not something I want.
KVRist
 
98 posts since 29 Jan, 2006
 

Postby cactuseskimo; Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:51 am

I agree and disagree.

Is it user friendly? No, I guess not. But at the same time, I haven't had any real issues with it, and the it's generally easy to get questions answered on the forum.

The workflow? Takes a little getting used to. Hasn't seemed like a huge deal.

Are some of the tapes, tube preamps, etc. subtle? Yes they are. At the same time, I don't think we realize how subtle these things are in the real world. Most of the developers post audio examples going through the nebula program and the actual gear for comparisons. Generally, Nebula sounds pretty much spot on - and yes, sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between those files (Nebula and the real gear) and the plain unprocessed one. In other words - it's extremely subtle.

We live in an age that has continuously told us that digital sounds downright horrible, and oh for the days of tape and tubes. Thus, we would all be very disappointed if plugin developers made tape and tube emulations that were as subtle as one-pass through the real thing. It's my opinion that these effects are generally an over exaggerated emulation of their real world counterparts. Do they sound good? Yeah, a lot of them do, so if you like them, then great!

In summary, I like Nebula. If starting over, I think I would buy it again. The eq's to my ears are the smoothest things going (try some comparisons on an entire mix), and I do like some of the preamps and tape presets for a subtle weight/dimension to the sound. The reverbs are generally very good (not the stock libraries as they were just sampled from plugins), and the new Kult Compressor (SPL Kultube) sounds extremely expensive IMHO, and extremely usable. Nebula does not have full compressor functionality yet, but some very clever dev's have been releasing libraries that are changing that recently.

I still like to use Waves Kramer Tape for the aforementioned, more obvious tape sound, and I like the Auto Volume from Melda and the Thrillseeker XTC from VOS. Besides that, I pretty much use Nebula for the rest of the eq, color, comp and reverb (although I do have some real spaces IR's that I still use often).

Hope that helps.
KVRist
 
435 posts since 21 Sep, 2008

Postby meloco_go; Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:45 am

I'm using Nebula Pro for a few years already (my license file dates February 2010). I went thru phases when I would try to add as much intances as I could and now there's usually just 1-3 instances in my projects.
So, would I advice you to buy it? ABSOLUTELY! If you're not REALLY short on money buy it and grab some 3rd party libraries.
Why?
After years of using Nebula alongside my usual plugins I have to say that where Nebula shines and what algorithmics miss is the element of unpredictability and sort of "holisticity" in a way they work. It is also the part where HW wins.
What does this mean?
Let me explain:
I do love experiments and several times I would grab a nebula program (like a Neve EQ) and would try to come with the same sound using common EQ. Often I found that I needed three-four bands to match the frequency responce and most of the times I would have to add something like Tessla or VCC for that slight drive. I really could come close to the point that the difference is irrelevant in the mix.
But from the workflow standpoint, handn't I have an example of what that program adds I would NEVER come with the same settings. So, I think it is a big difference in that Nebula as a HW the models are taken from impose a lot of character at once and you can then decide whether it works for the benefit or not. With most plugins it's easy to end microanalyzing details to infinity and loose the vision in the process.
That is, to me, the biggest difference. There are a few plugins which have same sort of an attitude (Cytomic Drop, ThrillseekerLA and maybe a couple of others) and I think we're getting more of that, but so far Nebula has much broader palette of sounds you can try.
And now the sound -- there are a lot of the programs that sound really good!
I usually have an instance of Nebula EQ and console on my master and that really adds to the sonics.
Also, you complained about reverbs, but nebula has some fantastic ones, like VNXT's EMT 140.
So, once again, if you're not short on money, grab Nebula, grab some AlexB, analoginthebox, rhythminmind, VNXT, cupwise etc etc programs and make some music!
Yeah, having x64 OS is a BIG benefit for Nebula.
User avatar
KVRian
 
1233 posts since 29 Dec, 2008, from Lithuania
 

Postby sorohanro; Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:12 pm

Thanks for replies. Quite in depth and informative, yet I already made my mind and uninstalled it.
Might be just me, but Nebula doesn't really do it for me.

In a recording I can't maybe hear a difference between two preamps, but while recording I can hear the difference between my Presonus Bluetube and Focusrite. Meanwhile, I can't hear any change or coloring while switching between preamps in Nebula.
KVRAF
 
2108 posts since 27 Dec, 2002, from London
 

Postby cron; Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:16 pm

Tried NebulaCM a while back and my machine, an admittedly ancient 1.6GHz Core 2 Duo laptop, just wasn't having any of it. Getting a new computer in the coming weeks and I'm gonna give it another look then. The concept seems very interesting.
User avatar
Tp3
KVRAF
 
1511 posts since 7 Feb, 2007

Postby Tp3; Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:12 pm

sorohanro wrote:So, many years ago I've heard of this Nebula VST but whenever I actually get the free version and try it, my computer could not put up with it. I see t praised on many audio forums for the wonderful analog emulations, brilliant ….whatever, so, I decided yesterday to try it again.
Got the free version and installed it. My impressions are not really positive.

free version is VERY limited vs the full fledged. V-E-R-Y.


sorohanro wrote:- all amp, preamp, tape and tube emulations don't really do anything to the sound

Learn to gain stage... and don't expect "Fuzz Distortion".

sorohanro wrote:- compressors don't really act like compressors

I believe the free version represent a very early stage in Nebula's life where it was weaker in this department.

sorohanro wrote:- reverbs are a bad joke

This is a bad joke, right ?... :lol:

Take a listen to the VNXT 20E (AKG 20E Plate Reverb - y'know... the huge boxes)

sorohanro wrote:- the "liquid" slider doesn't do anything, maybe some bad artifacts in one reverb program

The trick with Nebula is : don't tweak (of course there ARE conditions where one MUST tweak. but this is for advanced\experiened users). load,listen,or reload - that's my motto.

sorohanro wrote:- when I run together with plugins that use same engine I have bursts of high pitched noise and my mixer channels go on red and stay there even after the sound stopped

Nebula free is not intended for the 3rd party libraries.

sorohanro wrote:Now, I see so many people being amazed by it that it makes me wonder, am I getting the bad results only?

Yes. :)

Learn what each version has to offer and then - ONLY then - you'll be able to better judge it.

Nebula is a tool that has to be "approached" in a certain way. it's a container of many libraries. each library has it's own "caveats" (maybe "caveats" is not the correct term.... "user guide" is probably more appropriate). it's up to the user to seek for info in order to fully understand (and exploit) it.
The whole notion of Analog vs Digital emulation has long gone haywire...
User avatar
KVRian
 
1233 posts since 29 Dec, 2008, from Lithuania
 

Postby sorohanro; Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:13 pm

Thanks for your feedback.
Tp3 wrote:
sorohanro wrote:So, many years ago I've heard of this Nebula VST but whenever I actually get the free version and try it, my computer could not put up with it. I see t praised on many audio forums for the wonderful analog emulations, brilliant ….whatever, so, I decided yesterday to try it again.
Got the free version and installed it. My impressions are not really positive.

free version is VERY limited vs the full fledged. V-E-R-Y.

Good to know this.
I don't think is a good idea that the demo, the "business card", the "first impression" is bad or limited in terms of quality.

Tp3 wrote:
sorohanro wrote:- all amp, preamp, tape and tube emulations don't really do anything to the sound

Learn to gain stage... and don't expect "Fuzz Distortion".

As mentioned before, while recording, I can hear the difference between my Presonus and my Focusrite, especially with a good microphone. (Presonus sounds a bit better for brass instruments, at least to my taste).

Tp3 wrote:
sorohanro wrote:- reverbs are a bad joke

This is a bad joke, right ?... :lol:
Take a listen to the VNXT 20E (AKG 20E Plate Reverb - y'know... the huge boxes)

I tried just the reverbs in the free version and those really didn't work at all. When listening only to wet signal was like those bad noise reduction plugins that make weird artifacts and tweaking the "liquidity" slider made those artifacts to have weird pitches...
For now I have the Reverberate and even it's default impulses sounds better, but I got some Bricasti impulses and those sounds pretty cool on orchestral stuff. Also I got the TC Electronic M30 (while was free), Halls Of Fame Origami with BRIC M17 and EVENT 2016 and those kind of get the job done.

Tp3 wrote:
sorohanro wrote:- the "liquid" slider doesn't do anything, maybe some bad artifacts in one reverb program

The trick with Nebula is : don't tweak (of course there ARE conditions where one MUST tweak. but this is for advanced\experiened users). load,listen,or reload - that's my motto.

Well, each sound is unique, or at least needs specific treatment in a mix, depending on arrangement, so, stuff like EZmix or "don't tweak" might be a bit limited.
I use EZmix but sometimes I get better results with separate plugins.

Tp3 wrote:
sorohanro wrote:- when I run together with plugins that use same engine I have bursts of high pitched noise and my mixer channels go on red and stay there even after the sound stopped

Nebula free is not intended for the 3rd party libraries.

Might be a misunderstanding. Sorry for my limited English knowledge.

I didn't try to run those INTO Nebula, those are separate plugins, that have their own dll and even if use same engine, you don't have to install Nebula for them to work.
You install them as a separate plugin and those were working just fine until I opened an instance of Nebula.
Same thing goes with T-Raks or Nomad Factory plugins.

Tp3 wrote:
sorohanro wrote:Now, I see so many people being amazed by it that it makes me wonder, am I getting the bad results only?

Yes. :)

:lol: funny
Actually, until I opened this topic I thought this too, then:
dalor wrote:When it works - it's great! But - sometimes you pick a preset - nothing, no change, you check the library paths, close and restart host again, then it shows up unregistered, you download new version, send an email for new regcode, wait 1-48 hours, enter registration and it's not working (or sometimes it does), load library again - nothing working, no change in sound and you have no idea what's going on. He was very helpful throughout this but at the end I just gave up due to frustration.

and

filter303 wrote:To put it short, I agree with the original poster.
.....
After using nebula for a while I can honestly say that Nebula overdrive/distortion/saturation is a big let down for me (I don't even want to talk about the compressors).
.....
Nebula was one of my biggest plugin investments in 2012. Now that I think about it, I really wish that I didn't listen to the hype surrounding it. I could have saved myself a lot of money, which I had better spent on some other products.

Whenever I think about Nebula, the word placebo comes into my mind. It's an effect we shouldn't be underestimating. People say that Nebula is magic, but if that is the case, I seem to have missed it.

and
gavriloP wrote:also, compressors, modulation FX and distortion are simply not working for me in Nebula. I see no point to use Nebula to those over any plugin.

So... it seems that I'm not the only one after all :)

Tp3 wrote:Learn what each version has to offer and then - ONLY then - you'll be able to better judge it.

Nebula is a tool that has to be "approached" in a certain way. it's a container of many libraries. each library has it's own "caveats" (maybe "caveats" is not the correct term.... "user guide" is probably more appropriate). it's up to the user to seek for info in order to fully understand (and exploit) it.


Thanks for the link and for the advice.
Do you have a mix with "before and after"? It would be interesting to hear.
Something with a more dramatic change so even a deaf trumpet player like me would hear :D
KVRist
 
56 posts since 16 Sep, 2012

Postby FeelingMachine; Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:51 pm

Euphoric Nebula user here.

Here is all you need to know :

You need buckets of CPU

You need to read everything

Once you understand that, next its imperative to follow dBu reference levels of the program/libraries you are using and how they are intended to work and how to apply it, or often it will not work as intended.

Nebula works, but it has been a complex ongoing development which in some way has sacrificed certain 'customer comforts'. For what Nebula has done for me, i do not mind this one tiny percent and now that i have become more fluent with Nebula, i find everything i currently need working perfectly, including the workflow (YMMV regarding workflow, entirely dependant on your processing power).

I have either purchased or demo'd most of the third party libraries and i can safely say that everything indeed does what is intended, bar the compressors with the exception of a handful of new fully responsive comps.

Programs like pre-amps and console emulations are indeed very subtle, but it is a very sweet and accumulative subtle that will change ITB mixes. Again, reading is important. Often the wrong program is being used on the wrong material. If you cannot hear a preamp affecting the sound, try adding further processing on top of the chain then bypass the pre-amp. This is where the magic lies and the same applies to the mic/line in/out, channel, buss, aux and mojo programs.

You can simply test this for yourself by creating a mix while emulating a hardware set-up with Nebula, preamp > line-in > channel > bus > output etc, then either bypassing Nebula or creating the same mix from scratch without Nebula.

Waves NLS, Satson Channel/Bus, TB Reelbus etc are good - you can get a satisfactory 'OTB' job done with these - but for me, Nebula just blows it all away. The depth and size of the field, the colour, saturation, harmonic distortion, etc is just all in the pocket imo, it is the hardware sampled after all..
KVRist
 
197 posts since 14 Sep, 2007

Postby gmitch; Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:03 pm

FeelingMachine wrote:Euphoric Nebula user here.

Here is all you need to know :

You need buckets of CPU

You need to read everything

Once you understand that, next its imperative to follow dBu reference levels of the program/libraries you are using and how they are intended to work and how to apply it, or often it will not work as intended.

Nebula works, but it has been a complex ongoing development which in some way has sacrificed certain 'customer comforts'. For what Nebula has done for me, i do not mind this one tiny percent and now that i have become more fluent with Nebula, i find everything i currently need working perfectly, including the workflow (YMMV regarding workflow, entirely dependant on your processing power).

I have either purchased or demo'd most of the third party libraries and i can safely say that everything indeed does what is intended, bar the compressors with the exception of a handful of new fully responsive comps.

Programs like pre-amps and console emulations are indeed very subtle, but it is a very sweet and accumulative subtle that will change ITB mixes. Again, reading is important. Often the wrong program is being used on the wrong material. If you cannot hear a preamp affecting the sound, try adding further processing on top of the chain then bypass the pre-amp. This is where the magic lies and the same applies to the mic/line in/out, channel, buss, aux and mojo programs.

You can simply test this for yourself by creating a mix while emulating a hardware set-up with Nebula, preamp > line-in > channel > bus > output etc, then either bypassing Nebula or creating the same mix from scratch without Nebula.

Waves NLS, Satson Channel/Bus, TB Reelbus etc are good - you can get a satisfactory 'OTB' job done with these - but for me, Nebula just blows it all away. The depth and size of the field, the colour, saturation, harmonic distortion, etc is just all in the pocket imo, it is the hardware sampled after all..



YEP!!!
User avatar
Tp3
KVRAF
 
1511 posts since 7 Feb, 2007

Postby Tp3; Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:21 am

sorohanro wrote::lol: funny
Actually, until I opened this topic I thought this too, then:
dalor wrote:...
...
...

and

filter303 wrote:...
...
...

and
gavriloP wrote:...
...
...

So... it seems that I'm not the only one after all :)

No, you AND three more guys don't know how to operate this plug :) (it's not personal, fella... yes ?)

y'know, for a LONG time, I thought some of Bootsie's plugs are subtle, at best.

y'have to understand one thing (and I will follow bManic's motto) :
Different plugs sound and behave DIFFERENTLY, at different gain stages. each plug has its own nominal level ("working level") and you have to be very specific with this, know how to hit the plug, level wise, otherwise you will get the wrong result... or won't be able to hear nothing AT ALL.

Next time you "don't hear anything" try going to the plug at -18dbFS RMS (lower the volume with something like FreeG). insert Nebula... and insert a FreeG after (to compensate). most (if not all) "analog" emu's act this way.

You will be able to better judge the results that way (which, STILL, can be subtle...but nonetheless - discernible)

sorohanro wrote:Thanks for the link and for the advice.
Do you have a mix with "before and after"? It would be interesting to hear.
Something with a more dramatic change so even a deaf trumpet player like me would hear :D

Lemme quate Morpheus from the first Matrix movie :
I told you before, Neo : I can only show you the door... YOU have to open it

:wink:
The whole notion of Analog vs Digital emulation has long gone haywire...
KVRist
 
87 posts since 6 May, 2004, from Ljubljana, Slovenia, EU

Postby zabukowski; Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:23 am

meloco_go wrote:Let me explain:
I do love experiments and several times I would grab a nebula program (like a Neve EQ) and would try to come with the same sound using common EQ. Often I found that I needed three-four bands to match the frequency responce and most of the times I would have to add something like Tessla or VCC for that slight drive. I really could come close to the point that the difference is irrelevant in the mix.
But from the workflow standpoint, handn't I have an example of what that program adds I would NEVER come with the same settings. So, I think it is a big difference in that Nebula as a HW the models are taken from impose a lot of character at once and you can then decide whether it works for the benefit or not. With most plugins it's easy to end microanalyzing details to infinity and loose the vision in the process.
That is, to me, the biggest difference.



I couldn't agree more. It is like listening to a good mix/master (done by someone else) and saying: "I could do the same without a problem". Maybe I could, but not without listening to existing mix/master first. If I had to do it from the scratch, I would probably never achieve that.

Nebula makes me do good decisions and points me to the right direction while mixing and mastering. Often in very subtle way but in the end, difference is evident. Placebo ? Who cares ;)

Zabukowski
User avatar
KVRian
 
1233 posts since 29 Dec, 2008, from Lithuania
 

Postby sorohanro; Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:13 am

So... I see some positive feedback, so, maybe I need to take a second look (well, actually third) at it.
Really, a comparative mix would help. At least I would know what to expect it to behave like. Stuff like " I can only show you the door... YOU have to open it" it's not really convincing.
An example like this:
http://soundcloud.com/mihai-sorohan/p-m-plug-ins-test-1
might be more convincing, eventually with a video walk-through.

For now, all the videos about Nebula or programs are like: some music, followed by the title of the program with something like "the sweet sound of *****, with it's legendary analog warmth....", and then some pictures of gear and stop. No actual mix with it, no solo instruments or groups using it, no examples how to use it...
PreviousNext

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

Return to Effects