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Next after UNO-LX

Official support for: kunz.corrupt.ch

Moderators: ToguAudioLine, Xenox.AFL

david.beholder
KVRist
 
300 posts since 12 Sep, 2007

Postby david.beholder; Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:14 pm Next after UNO-LX

UNO-LX is wonderful, but is there any plans for something else? Say for 2 some vintage 2 osc emu?
Image Sincerely yours, Wyatt Fokkilokk
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djanthonyw
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6706 posts since 20 Jul, 2004, from Boston

Postby djanthonyw; Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:17 pm

It seems that it will be an update of the SH-101 emulation.
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Kees49
KVRist
 
60 posts since 24 Nov, 2011

Postby Kees49; Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:30 pm

Yeah, a descent Prophet V emu... 8)
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BlackWinny
KVRAF
 
1863 posts since 17 Jun, 2013, from very close to Paris, France

Postby BlackWinny; Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:38 am

Kees49 wrote:Yeah, a descent Prophet V emu... 8)


There is already one which is really good: Messiah.

I use it everyday and it is excellent. As all the emulations made by Gunar Ekornas and his team.

They are:

And you can add the two emulations made by Gunar with Glen Stegner as team name Votlkitchen. These two emulations are very known... they are MinimogueVA (the only free emulation of Minimoog which can compete with Arturia Minimoog V and with G-Force Minimonsta) and Arppe2600VA (the only free emulation of ARP 2600 which can compete with Way Out Ware TimewARP 2600... Arturia ARP2600 V beeing a joke in comparison).

So I don't think that an emulation of SCI Prophet 5 by Togu Audio Line would be a good idea... My opinion is that the best way will be to grab:
  • something very original not yet broached by anyone
  • or something sadly discontinued after an excellent life
  • or something currently available but to much expensive for the majority

Here are 5 ideas, 5 synths which have entered the legend and definitively a Great part of the History:


Or to start straight out in a new direction by a really excellent emulation of the phase distortion synthesis (the Casio CZ-series, for instance the cheap, simple but excellent Casio CZ-101) which in terribly underestimated regards to its awesome possibilities. At this day, many VST (and hardware) synths pretend to use the phase distortion (and sometimes pretend to emulate a Casio CZ, let me have a good laugh) but absolutely anyone after Casio has really gone into the deep heart of this synthesis. An emulation of the Casio CZ-101 (don't ask from now on an emulation of the Casio CZ-3000/5000) should be an excellent idea to give a new fresh air to the team, maybe like a little pause as recreation in another synthesis before a great come back to the subtractive synthesis.

But if Patrick Kunz (TAL) prefers to stay in the subtractive synthesis without any exception, my opinion is that these 5 ideas above are excellent subjects that will give him a great work and that also are among the most popular, the most legendary vintage synths which still wait at this day for a real excellent emulation and at a reasonable price.

I haven't mentioned Roland JP-8000 because there is now an excellent emulation made by Adam Szabo who made specifically his Bachelor's Thesis in Media Technology on the subject of... How to emulate the Roland Supersaw! His emulation JP6K is awesome (it needs to be still improved for other points, but it's undubitably the closest emulation of the JP-8000 supersaw technics), I love it since the day I bought it and it would be unfair from myself to Adam to suggest another cheap (as all the products from TAL) emulation of the JP-8000. I prefer to encourage Adam in his excellent work... or, why not if the idea is shared by both, collaborate with Patrick for a stroke of genius in common.
david.beholder
KVRist
 
300 posts since 12 Sep, 2007

Postby david.beholder; Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:50 pm

BlackWinny wrote:[*]Me-80 (emulation of Yamaha CS-80)


It's better than Arturia but not TAL level of emulation. I know couple of guys who've put to the closet/sold their 60/160 after uno :)
Image Sincerely yours, Wyatt Fokkilokk
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EvilDragon
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10038 posts since 6 Jan, 2009, from Croatia

Postby EvilDragon; Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:01 pm

BlackWinny wrote:they are MinimogueVA (the only free emulation of Minimoog which can compete with Arturia Minimoog V and with G-Force Minimonsta)


But not with Monark and not with DIVA. ;)

BlackWinny wrote:His emulation JP6K is awesome (it needs to be still improved for other points, but it's undubitably the closest emulation of the JP-8000 supersaw technics)


It was until Diva got the Digital oscillator and completely nailed it better than JP6K, plus it's not 32-bit Windows only. ;)
Last edited by EvilDragon on Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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fmr
KVRAF
 
2870 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:07 pm

BlackWinny wrote: Or to start straight out in a new direction by a really excellent emulation of the phase distortion synthesis (the Casio CZ-series, for instance the cheap, simple but excellent Casio CZ-101) which in terribly underestimated regards to its awesome possibilities. At this day, many VST (and hardware) synths pretend to use the phase distortion (and sometimes pretend to emulate a Casio CZ, let me have a good laugh) but absolutely anyone after Casio has really gone into the deep heart of this synthesis. An emulation of the Casio CZ-101 (don't ask from now on an emulation of the Casio CZ-3000/5000) should be an excellent idea to give a new fresh air to the team, maybe like a little pause as recreation in another synthesis before a great come back to the subtractive synthesis.

I share your enthusiasm for the PD synthesis method in Casio way, although there are already some atempts (Kassiopeia follows that path pretty close, and Tube Ohm seems to have achieved something interesting with it's latest synth Phasewave).
Of someone manages to emulate the CZ-101, then amulating the CZ-3000/5000 (the latest just adds a sequencer), is a piece of cake, since they just added polyphony (16 voices on 3000/5000 against just 8 voices in 101/1000 - which, when we use two synth lines, something quite common, cuts that number by half, leaving you with just four voices). Besides that, the synth engine is exactly the same.
Fernando (FMR)
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BlackWinny
KVRAF
 
1863 posts since 17 Jun, 2013, from very close to Paris, France

Postby BlackWinny; Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:18 am

EvilDragon wrote:
BlackWinny wrote:they are MinimogueVA (the only free emulation of Minimoog which can compete with Arturia Minimoog V and with G-Force Minimonsta)


But not with Monark and not with DIVA. ;)

BlackWinny wrote:His emulation JP6K is awesome (it needs to be still improved for other points, but it's undubitably the closest emulation of the JP-8000 supersaw technics)


It was until Diva got the Digital oscillator and completely nailed it better than JP6K, plus it's not 32-bit Windows only. ;)


Diva... Ah yes ! Of course you're right. I'm gonna write few more lines at the end of this post.

About Monark... I'm a bit mixed. And I feel the same about all the plug-ins which need an external engine (Reaktor player, Kontakt Player, etc.) to work. Since the death of Kore (after only 5 years of life) which de facto dragged down with it ALL the Kore-based instruments and effects, I have decided to nevermore put many eggs in one basket, because I have lost to much money. In its infinite kindness Native Instruments had announced "Owners of the full versions of Kore 1 or Kore 2 (excluding software-only versions) who are interested in Maschine can purchase a special crossgrade price of $449 / €399 until the end of the year." and also "Future versions of the Komplete bundle and of individual NI instruments might no longer be fully compatible with Kore, and will not include special preset versions for its sound browser." Was it a joke ??? And what about the users of all the instruments which were bought to be used on the Kore Player ? They have been totally forgotten.

So now I avoid like the plague all the instruments and effects which are based on an external engine and need therefore a "player" (or synonym in some other companies). Maschine or Komplete in their full version could resolve the problem... but they are not affordable for everyone. And I don't dare to think of what will happen to thousands of people the day Native Instruments discontinues Kontakt and Kontakt Player... Because the past have shown that a company is unhesitatingly capable to throw in the bin a largely sold and successful product without the least qualms for the thousands of customers. So much the worse for them! Period.

The situation is even aggravated by the fact that the Native Instruments products are protected by an online unlock needed at each reinstallation, even for a simple Kontakt Player by the way. So unlike simple VSTs, after their discontinuation all these products will nevermore be reinstallable even offline. Anyone!

I can accept a situation like this for independant products which don't need external engine, because each of these products have its own life and its own end of life. But I have lost to much money in only ONE SAME DAY by the discontinuation of an engine which was absolutely required for many plugins and soundsets. All these products have been thrown in the bin at the same time because of an impossibility to reinstall them all when I changed the computer a few months later.

Their products are among the best, yes. But the unlock method is the most annoying that exists. This method (online registration) is acceptable for independant products (the products of the Korg Legacy are all independant, the products of IK Multimedia are all independant, etc.) but it is an amazing risky bet when thinking of the future concerning an engine and all the products which needs this engine! The engine may be free... arf, arf... the hundreds of products which require this engine are not free at all, and often they are quite expensive! And all will be obsolete and definitively unusable the same day!

Of course I feel exactly the same about UVI and their workstation and all the products which need it to work... An engine which is free, yes, but requires an amazingly constraining method of online registration, and if it was not enough... not only an engine but also a ridiculously complex and constraining method of online registration, and the risky bet to see one day ALL the dependant products die at the same time whatever the price they have cost!

The only Native Instruments product that I use (and I love it) is FM8, because even if like Korg Legacy or IK Multimedia (and so on) products which use the same online method of registration... it doesn't require any external engine.

The simultaneous constraint of online registration AND (considered as logical operator) external engine is an enormous risky bet which doesn't exist at all with U-He products, TAL products, Alchemy products, Cakewalk products, Korg products, , IK products, LinPlug products, AAS products, Lennar products, PPG products, Waldorf products, Fxpansion products, etc.

This is a real shame because it is obvious that Native Instruments products are among the best. But I always remember the impression I have got when Kore player has been discontinued: a basket full of many eggs which suddenly brakes and falls heavily down... with the immediate, total and definitive destruction of all the eggs which were in it! Suddenly all is definitively lost: the basket but also all the eggs (and some were very expensive) which were in this basket.

Nevermore as said the Raven of Edgar Allan Poe!

If Monark (or any other) was an independant product without any external engine, sure I'd be a customer, because it is indisputably of the most extreme quality.

And what I like in TAL or U-He or (etc.) products is that they don't submit their customer to an insane sword of Damocles hung over their head.

About Diva: +1 of course. The only point which retained me to insert it in my little comparison list about Minimoog emulations was in fact that Diva is very, very CPU demanding compared to the others that I have cited.
:wink:


:D
Last edited by BlackWinny on Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:32 am, edited 3 times in total.
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chk071
KVRAF
 
2996 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:22 am

EvilDragon wrote:
BlackWinny wrote:they are MinimogueVA (the only free emulation of Minimoog which can compete with Arturia Minimoog V and with G-Force Minimonsta)


But not with Monark and not with DIVA. ;)

Nor with Minimoog V and Minimonsta... it's not bad for free, but frankly, it can't compete with the payware emus. Especially the filter is pretty bad.
knowix
KVRist
 
91 posts since 12 Nov, 2011

Postby knowix; Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:58 am

I'm rather sceptical whether Patrick Kunz is going to want to purchase a profoundly expensive synth like a JP8 or Synthex, in order to emulate it. Now if he could get an MS-80 for a reasonable price perhaps.

I find it hard to think of another synth with the same appeal as the Juno 60 or the SH101. Perhaps making an improved version of NoiseMaker is the way forward?

Of course the elephant in the room is the 303. I don't think there's anyone claiming that they have an indistinguishable emulation of the 303, but I also think that no developer wants the PR headache of trying to make an indistinguishable version of such a mythologised synth. It attracts obsessives who'd probably bash it for being only a 99.9% emulation.

Edit: wrote 106 instead of 60.
Last edited by knowix on Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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chk071
KVRAF
 
2996 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:00 am

knowix wrote:Perhaps making an improved version of NoiseMaker is the way forward?

Yes please!
Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
 
3740 posts since 15 Aug, 2006

Postby Funkybot's Evil Twin; Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:13 am

knowix wrote:I'm rather sceptical whether Patrick Kunz is going to want to purchase a profoundly expensive synth like a JP8 or Synthex, in order to emulate it. Now if he could get an MS-80 for a reasonable price perhaps.


Did you mean MS-20 or CS-80? I'm not familiar with an MS-80.

I'm sure whatever Patrick does next will be interesting. I'd personally love to see someone nail a Prophet-5 since I don't know of any spot-on 64 bit versions, but that's just me.
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EvilDragon
KVRAF
 
10038 posts since 6 Jan, 2009, from Croatia

Postby EvilDragon; Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:15 am

What a wall of text O.o; tl;dr


Just to brush onto one thing you mentioned - discontinuation of a product doesn't magically make it broken and not working. Kore is still alive and well and works, just ask aMAZEd. :) If you're on Mac, tough luck - Apple will definitely make your life more bitter and at some point Kore will just stop working after a new OSX update. That won't happen nearly as fast on Windows.
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BlackWinny
KVRAF
 
1863 posts since 17 Jun, 2013, from very close to Paris, France

Postby BlackWinny; Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:24 am Next after UNO-LX

chk071 wrote:
knowix wrote:Perhaps making an improved version of NoiseMaker is the way forward?

Yes please!


I totally agree. All the essential is done in NoiseMaker, but some aspects need upgrades and improvements, and it should be a wonderful plan for months of neat work and with the result of one of the major virtual instruments at the league of some among those done by Urs.

Further more... many people (including me and certainly all here) claim, beg for this update for nearly two years.

We should write a petition to send to Patrick !

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
I said No!_____________________WE SAY YEEESSSSS!!!!!
Last edited by BlackWinny on Tue May 13, 2014 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
knowix
KVRist
 
91 posts since 12 Nov, 2011

Postby knowix; Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:13 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Did you mean MS-20 or CS-80? I'm not familiar with an MS-80.

I'm sure whatever Patrick does next will be interesting. I'd personally love to see someone nail a Prophet-5 since I don't know of any spot-on 64 bit versions, but that's just me.


Oh, I meant the MKS-80 Super Jupiter.

Funny that you mention the Prophet 5. I was just about to say that a more accurate emulation of the Pro One (with polyphony) would be a big deal. And a Pro One isn't a horribly expensive investment.

Anyway, I imagine that the follow up to BassLine-101 is already in the works.
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