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Dropouts at 60%...Change my CPU or change my card ?

Official support for: u-he.com

Moderator: Urs

yul
KVRist
 
386 posts since 26 Sep, 2002, from Montreal, CANADA

Postby yul; Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:17 am Dropouts at 60%...Change my CPU or change my card ?

How important is CPU performance versus ASIO driver quality when using DIVA?

I am playing with the demos and am wondering if I should upgrade my soundcard...Behringer UCA 202 usb

I know you will tell me its a low end card but the drivers are the same licensed drivers as some higher end products.

I am getting crackles and dropouts at around 60% CPU...where most of the DIVA patches range in.

Alternatively, is my Dual core CPU at cause otherwise?

Switching to a Focusrite 2i2 is the plan but i have no clue if it will improve my overall experience...

Thanks!
User avatar
KVRian
 
583 posts since 29 Apr, 2012, from Mos Esley
 

Postby Endor-8o8; Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:24 am

Well the CPU concerns the mathematical operations that your processor is treating, so if you have some great CPU peak it means that you're using a unit (like Diva, Zebra, or even a compressor plugin) that needs a high amount of CPU resources to work, and even more if you increase your sample rate (typically from 44.1 kHz to 88.2 khz). So imho you need to upgrade your dual core and switch to a quad core or more. Well depends on your budget and attempts...
"It is better to live one day as a lion than a thousand days as a sheep."
yul
KVRist
 
386 posts since 26 Sep, 2002, from Montreal, CANADA

Postby yul; Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:35 am

Yet my cpu is at 60-70% when my dropouts occur....not 100%..why is that? I am thinking the card asio driver?
User avatar
KVRian
 
583 posts since 29 Apr, 2012, from Mos Esley
 

Postby Endor-8o8; Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:02 am

yul wrote:Yet my cpu is at 60-70% when my dropouts occur....not 100%..why is that? I am thinking the card asio driver?


I got some serious drops at around 75% on a session where I loaded an outrageous amount of plugs, and think about the fact that your cpu no only work for you DAW but also for other little applications here and there. You can also try to increase your buffer size, maybe your buffer value is too small ( don't forget that increasing your buffer size means increasing your system latency too). It's not only a question of 100%, it's mainly about buffer size and your processor calculation speed. Think about one guy sending balls to another. If the first one (your plug or vsti) sends too many balls at high speed and at the same time, the receiver (your buffer/cpu) won't be able to deal with all of them at the same time, sometime he will miss one or two or three etc...And this is where drops start to happen.
Last edited by Endor-8o8 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
"It is better to live one day as a lion than a thousand days as a sheep."
yul
KVRist
 
386 posts since 26 Sep, 2002, from Montreal, CANADA

Postby yul; Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:06 am

Thanks! I meant to say that i am running at 10ms...which is what i like to play with Would a change is interface/driver quality help in that respect?
User avatar
KVRian
 
583 posts since 29 Apr, 2012, from Mos Esley
 

Postby Endor-8o8; Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:17 am

yul wrote:Thanks! I meant to say that i am running at 10ms...which is what i like to play with Would a change is interface/driver quality help in that respect?


Well another audio interface can improve and preserve a low latency but it won't deal with audio drops (which is mainly about processor)...Berhinger is a really poor quality company (no offense to you!) so thinking about switching to a higher quality interface will always be a good thing for you !
I'm not a specialist concerning audio interfaces (I have a RME Babyface and I'm happy with that) so I can't really help you on that question so I prefer to keep my mouth shut about that and let another one answering you more precisely ! :wink:
"It is better to live one day as a lion than a thousand days as a sheep."
yul
KVRist
 
386 posts since 26 Sep, 2002, from Montreal, CANADA

Postby yul; Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:26 am

Its OK I appreciate your help!
User avatar
KVRian
 
583 posts since 29 Apr, 2012, from Mos Esley
 

Postby Endor-8o8; Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:48 am

yul wrote:Its OK I appreciate your help!


No problem ! :)
"It is better to live one day as a lion than a thousand days as a sheep."
KVRist
 
300 posts since 8 Apr, 2012, from planet Earth
 

Postby chilly7; Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:46 pm

When u selecting CPU pay a big attantion to the cashe size and even more then for speed and core size, because if in case the cash is not enough, ur CPU will be waisting it's power.

For example on my mother Macbook Air, it has dual core i5 with 1.8khz and 3 mb cash. i tried to load some heavy duty music programs and most of the time after 60% of load on one core and another core is almost free I have cruckllee, so it means i don't have anough cash , so the rest of cpu power is vaisted.

usually laptops have 6mb cash and high end i7 have 8 mb cash, and it is seriously not enough for demending music programs.....

and here where comes Xeons CPUs because they have 12mb and more.....


See cash size as a track load and CPU speed as at what speed the track can go....
User avatar
KVRian
 
1400 posts since 24 Dec, 2004, from Melbourne, Australia
 

Postby sqigls; Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:25 pm

try to increse your buffer size first.
You might be able to get away with that... but the soundcard (and driver) is bottom quality, and dual core is even old for the newer plugs such as Diva.

If you are even half serious about carving tunes, I would recommend to save your beans for something like the RME Babyface. Then you'll be set for AGES. I used SO many different cards before I got the RME Fireface, with all sorts of problems, but I've put the RME through hell and the thing is like a tank, driver-wise also. Solid drivers will reduce the amount of audio glitches and dropouts, and enable you to use lower latencies for longer... BUT (again), a Quad core should possibly be your first purchase (?) if you're running heaps of plugins and only using software (not recording guitars, mics etc) and the Behringer is doing a reasonable job. (?)

That said, now i see you joined KVR back in 2002 so you're probably not a newb, maybe it's time you invest in a soundcard with some decent converters ;)
KVRAF
 
1890 posts since 9 Dec, 2008, from Berlin
 

Postby ThomasHelzle; Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:33 am

60% of what?
What DAW?
Is Diva set to Multithreading?
What OS?
What CPU?

If Diva isn't set to Multithreading, 50/60% CPU use means one Core is overloading, which is normal in that case, since a DAW can't split one plugins power demands over several cores.

Also, if I remember correctly, Diva is optimized for newer CPUs, so if you should still be using a Core Duo or something like that (like I have in my Laptop) Diva doesn't run well on it.
Even on my Dual Quad-Core Xeon MacPro 2008 it's pretty bad compared to current I7 CPUs.

I don't know the Focusrite 2i2, but I know that the Saffire PRO 24 DSP is performing worse on an I7 than my old Presonus Firebox on said 2008 MacPro 8 Core Xeon.

I personally would update the Audio Interface last if you are otherwise happy with the Behringer and rather go for a I7 quad core if possible.

Cheers,

Tom
KVRist
 
300 posts since 8 Apr, 2012, from planet Earth
 

Postby chilly7; Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:00 pm

sqigls wrote:try to increse your buffer size first.
You might be able to get away with that... but the soundcard (and driver) is bottom quality, and dual core is even old for the newer plugs such as Diva.

If you are even half serious about carving tunes, I would recommend to save your beans for something like the RME Babyface. Then you'll be set for AGES. I used SO many different cards before I got the RME Fireface, with all sorts of problems, but I've put the RME through hell and the thing is like a tank, driver-wise also. Solid drivers will reduce the amount of audio glitches and dropouts, and enable you to use lower latencies for longer... BUT (again), a Quad core should possibly be your first purchase (?) if you're running heaps of plugins and only using software (not recording guitars, mics etc) and the Behringer is doing a reasonable job. (?)

That said, now i see you joined KVR back in 2002 so you're probably not a newb, maybe it's time you invest in a soundcard with some decent converters ;)


on my mother laptop u used 512 buffer size for 96khz , so i cannot increse the buffer size more because the latency will be noticable then.. :oops:
yul
KVRist
 
386 posts since 26 Sep, 2002, from Montreal, CANADA

Postby yul; Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:09 pm

Hello, I have found the culprit....the DPC latency tool reported ATAPI.sys with having the most latency nevertheless acceptable for real time audio. I further reduced the DPC latency of ATAPI.sys by disabling all unused IDE channels and devices such as my DVD ROM in device manager. I had streamlined every other driver/device and disabled pretty much everything but forgot this one. My system immediately went back to stable even under high CPU loads with low latency. The problems were only visible under high CPU loads. Thank god for you guys, the internet and google for making all these answers and tools available. Now i can enjoy near real time modern VSTI soft synthesizers with my 6year old PC and 30$ Behringer soundcard. Yay!
KVRAF
 
1707 posts since 13 Aug, 2011, from Berlin

Postby Fritze; Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:40 am

Cool yul!

Thanx for posting the details. :)

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