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Sad, i know snow leopard is finished. so ML.do you think a PLUGIN would ever specifically need it?

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Is snow leopard dead for future AU plugins?

Snow leopard forever!
6
43%
Are you mad, get the latest and greatest, ROAR
5
36%
Smeg
3
21%
 
Total votes : 14
TheoM
KVRAF
 
19180 posts since 4 Sep, 2001, from Melbourne Australia

Postby TheoM; Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:06 pm Sad, i know snow leopard is finished. so ML.do you think a PLUGIN would ever specifically need it?

Mac's aren't windows, apple has already dropped support for snow leopard and it's just 3 years old if that.. maybe less..can't remember exactly when it came out..

already 10.9 is coming this summer (US summer) and then LION will officially not even be supported anymore. Heck that will be 2 years old.

I HATE that about apple, pushing f**king OS updates when SL was and is the best OSX for audio bar none.

No such thing as XP type support.. wow.. microsoft are so different there. (kudos to them).

I am sure windows 7 will be supported for at least the next ten years..

anyway..

There are some programs (sound forge, triumph, cubase 7, upcoming wavelab 8 ) which absolutely require minimum Lion. Heck, even tracktion 4 is not officially supported on snow leopard (gotta love that, they stopped at leopard support, went silent for 4 years, then come back and totally skip the best OS.. !)

The thing is, i am happy, no, ECSTATIC, with waveburner and logic 9 just the way they are right NOW, using snow leopard 10.6.8. I know logic 10 being an apple program will require probably not even lion but mountain lion, but i have no plans to adopt a full rewrite of a program for at least 2 years after it's introduced..especially since my niggles with logic are so minor in the grand scheme of things..

All that is troubling me is if PLUGINS will start requiring lion/ML or above.. I have not seen that happen yet, not a single one..but....

so what i am asking is, mac users, if you were to hazard a genuine guess, would you see that happening in the next 3 years?

I am formatting my imac from scratch, i have never used it due to illness, it was purchased July 2011 the last day before lion came out (on purpose), it's a 3.4 i7, 16gb ram, 3 x 256 ssd, a 2TB 7200, and an external esata (through thunderbolt) 750 GB 7200. Ati radeon 7970m. That should be enough for a few years power wise. Basically maxed out 2600k.

The new imacs just released have lost dedicated firewire, have only usb 3 which is incompatible with my usb 2 interface, and have lost the second drive slot. It's power difference of the flagship in benchmarks is 10% more than mine. Big deal. I will keep this imac until it literally dies, it's quiet as anything too and i love it. It restarts from point of pressing restart to completely back at desktop logged in in 19 seconds :grin:

But now that i am feeling not bad for a couple of weeks, i am going to take advantage of it, and write some music in my studio room using a real midi keyboard (instead of qwerty laptop in bed lol) and damn that's gonna be good. Will work as much as i can in there whilst my health holds out.

I am going to wipe the imac and start fresh as i want a minimum install, not the factory one. I bought ML to put on my laptop to test it (wireless throughput is abysmal but apparently that is getting fixed, oh, and shutdown is really slow and terrible in mountain lion), so i am legally allowed to put it on the imac as well.

What would YOU do?

To start a machine from scratch today, would i be MAD putting on Snow Leopard?, or should i just do it, and do you think it will be safe for future PLUGINS.. remember, i don't care about hosts, just plugs.

Cheers!
Last edited by TheoM on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Just call me shitload, cause I own a shitload of plugins!"
User avatar
V0RT3X
KVRAF
 
4235 posts since 3 Jul, 2012

Postby V0RT3X; Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:09 pm

Im kind of pissed they pulled the plug on PowerPC support..

I still refuse to upgrade right now, and I am currently at 10.7.5
Having the best tools and technical knowledge isn't gonna do much for you if you don't understand how to make good music.
TheoM
KVRAF
 
19180 posts since 4 Sep, 2001, from Melbourne Australia

Postby TheoM; Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:12 pm

Oh yeah that's the other thing, i get to keep using quicktime pro 7 which shits on X and has convert and save features etc, and rosetta!
"Just call me shitload, cause I own a shitload of plugins!"
kgdrum
KVRist
 
196 posts since 12 Sep, 2005, from NYC

Postby kgdrum; Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:39 pm

I was one of the Mac users happily parked in 10.68. & expected to stay as long as I could.
When UA officially dropped support of Snow Leopard, I made the leap to Mountain Lion 10.82 & I must say after changing a few default preferences Mountain Lion is actually a great OS! ;-)
Seeing UA decision to officially drop support of SL convinced me sooner rather then later other companies will soon follow.
Mountain Lion is much better than I expected,my Mac is actually running better than it was with Snow Leopard & I'm glad I updated.


;-)
MacPro 3.1 (2.8 Quad)24gig,OSX10.83, DP8.05 RME FF800,Great River ME-1NV,a few mics ,NI Komplete,numerous VI's & plugins vDrums TD20 expanded,Superior 2 etc,,UAD2...Focal Twin 6 monitors, Shunyata,hard drives galore.
TheoM
KVRAF
 
19180 posts since 4 Sep, 2001, from Melbourne Australia

Postby TheoM; Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:55 pm

WOW uad dropped support for snow leopard? well that's out then as a UAD is on my list.

Can't believe this.. first plugins to drop support. there's a hint.

What pricks in a way though, making mac users wait so long for 64 bit and not giving one official snow leopard release. That sucks.

I bet you they haven't dropped windows 7 support, which is the same age as snow leopard.

Maybe i'll boycott instead..

Actually would love to hear from plug in devs in this thread, as that would be really important and sway my decision.. the sooner the better.. the clean install is awaiting to be done!

kgdrum, don't you have issues with shutdown? My macbook spins ten times if certain applications have been used prior to shutdown before shutting down (it always does though)

And i get 500k per second wifi, and snow leopard on imac and also on same macbook gets 1800k

also logic suffers from some gui lag, but apparently that's a "hidden" fix in 10.8.3

I hate kind of installing everything now when 10.8.3 is apparently around the corner..

i'd rather re-download from app store and install 10.8.3 fresh, as it includes alot of fixes.. wifi, logic, but apparently not shutdown times.

You know what i mean? install 100 gb of plugins and apps and THEN install 10.8.3 on top? would rather have that done FIRST, and then start installing my audio apps.

Come on apple with 10.8.3!
"Just call me shitload, cause I own a shitload of plugins!"
User avatar
ZenPunkHippy
KVRAF
 
10360 posts since 18 Jun, 2008, from Melbourne, Australia

Postby ZenPunkHippy; Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:14 pm

I haven't read the whole thread, but the answer to your basic question is:

Yes at some point in the future there will be plugins that no longer work on OS 10.6.8.

We are already seeing this happen with some apps and it's kinda frustrating seeing developers post "this is the last version that will work with Snow Leopard".

The problem is not the developers fault - often it's the result of changes imposed by Apple. For certain features to work, it is necessary to use a specific version of XCode. The version of XCode largely determines which version of OS X the app or plugin will work on. That's why you are seeing a lot of companies - particularly those who have moved to signed installers - drop support for OS 10.5.

None of this is a comment on what Camel will do, btw - I have no information to suggest we will drop support for 10.6 any time soon - but as pointed out above, this is sometimes out of the developers control.

Peace,
Andy.
kgdrum
KVRist
 
196 posts since 12 Sep, 2005, from NYC

Postby kgdrum; Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:19 pm

I said they dropped SL officially,it still works for many users.
I see no real problems with Mountain Lion,I don't agree a company like UA drops SL because they're pricks,I'm sure they have good reasons that we might not be privy to,no company especially a company like UA who are IMO one of the best companies for consistently offering 1st class plugs and amazing support,had their reasons.
I also suspect UA might have needed to move forward with the officially supported OS due to the nature of their use of software with proprietary hardware and it's associated limitations & requirements.
As someone else said in another post 10.9 will be here probably this year,if they offer support for 3 OS's by then ,that's pretty good in my book.
If you want to place blame it's Apple that's been changing the OS frequently,talk to developers about the SDK that keeps changing,from my understanding this makes Apple difficult for some developers to keep up with.
It could be worse at least it's not Windows 8 :-)
MacPro 3.1 (2.8 Quad)24gig,OSX10.83, DP8.05 RME FF800,Great River ME-1NV,a few mics ,NI Komplete,numerous VI's & plugins vDrums TD20 expanded,Superior 2 etc,,UAD2...Focal Twin 6 monitors, Shunyata,hard drives galore.
jancivil
KVRAF
 
9490 posts since 20 Oct, 2007

Postby jancivil; Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:01 pm

I'm just a late adapter of software. Everything I use is mature and stable on 10.6.8, I don't tend to think I need more than the expansive palette/embarrassment of riches I have today so I'm staying put, I don't need to chase the future.

If people come out with new things that don't work on it, I'm not liable to be driven too easily to adapt until I sense my own critical mass. I like where I'm camped. I like that I had money when the things that I use arrived as they did. I have the 4.1 MacPro 8-cores and it seems resilient.
TheoM
KVRAF
 
19180 posts since 4 Sep, 2001, from Melbourne Australia

Postby TheoM; Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:52 am

Flux 64 bit requires lion. I couldn't work out why bittersweet 3 wouldn't work on my mac so i checked their webpage and so it is.

so so far, fux, and uad, sound forge, cubase 7 and triumph. They are the only things i know of needing lion and up. I don't currently use any of them, would like sound forge once it has cd burning, but i keep on forgetting about audition which is superior anyway and that works just fine as is.

Uad.. meh.. have had lust for so many years, more for the unique stuff like the tape (now covered with slate digital, and i realised if the slate one is so accurate than i don't like the sound of real tape after all that LOL, i prefer the "effecty" type saturators), EMT250 (covered with ERS), emt 140 (no alternative yet), Little labs low end bass thingy (this one has really got me lusting, it seems to sound better than all the other low end enhancers i have) and a few other tidbits.

So i think i stay with SL after all. Anyway will see how this very very popular :lol: poll goes
"Just call me shitload, cause I own a shitload of plugins!"
User avatar
fmr
KVRAF
 
2866 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:30 am

kgdrum wrote:I said they dropped SL officially,it still works for many users.
I see no real problems with Mountain Lion,I don't agree a company like UA drops SL because they're pricks,I'm sure they have good reasons that we might not be privy to,no company especially a company like UA who are IMO one of the best companies for consistently offering 1st class plugs and amazing support,had their reasons.
I also suspect UA might have needed to move forward with the officially supported OS due to the nature of their use of software with proprietary hardware and it's associated limitations & requirements.
As someone else said in another post 10.9 will be here probably this year,if they offer support for 3 OS's by then ,that's pretty good in my book.
If you want to place blame it's Apple that's been changing the OS frequently,talk to developers about the SDK that keeps changing,from my understanding this makes Apple difficult for some developers to keep up with.
It could be worse at least it's not Windows 8 :-)

Three OSes? It's basically the same OS - nothing really important changed, except fro dropping things that force people to act differently - very much in Apple way. I jumped from 10.5 to 10.7 because of a new Mac, and, putting aside tha nnoyance of Rosetta being dropped, which caused several application to become incompatible, I saw nothing that really added something to my productivity. It was merely cosmetics and replacements, planned to make things obsolete faster than they should. Last year I saw the release of several applications that officially announced suport for only Windows 7, yetr I was able to install them and make them work with Windows XP whcih was like 10 years old (which Mac OS version was there then?. Even Cubase 7, if ot wasn't for the installer checker that refuses to install in XP, I'm sure would run perfectly on that OS.
And now they are announcing 10.9? I think they are becoming like Mozilla - a new version every six months, and we can't tell what is there to justify the change - except, of curse, the default background - I'm sure they fouhd another galaxy to use. This shows a complete despise and lack of consideration to existing users.
I don't vote, because my vote would be like: Stick with the current OS for as long as you can, and only change to the next oldest OS you can. NEVER use the latest OS, unless you want trouble. I like Macs, but I hate Apple, and their arrogant and disrepectful way of doing business.
Fernando (FMR)
TheoM
KVRAF
 
19180 posts since 4 Sep, 2001, from Melbourne Australia

Postby TheoM; Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:41 pm

fmr wrote:I like Macs, but I hate Apple, and their arrogant and disrepectful way of doing business.


sigh.. i actually agree with you, but it took me three years to see it.

I do like the mac finder experience, very much, i love quicklook, and i love audiofinder/snapper of which there is simply no alternative on windows and they are part of my daily way of life. And i LOVE not having a registry.

BUT.. i really AM starting to despise apple themselves.

They are arrogant and forceful, and i don't like it.

the problem ultimately is logic. I can't get away from it, every time i open it, 15 years later, i still smile. I just feel so natural in it and i can work so fast in it, like lightning.

If they made a windows version, not only would i switch,, the windows version would have even better performance.

but that will never happen, so i guess i'll never switch. :(
"Just call me shitload, cause I own a shitload of plugins!"
TheoM
KVRAF
 
19180 posts since 4 Sep, 2001, from Melbourne Australia

Postby TheoM; Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:37 am

TWELVE votes? surely there must be mac users here, voting in this is kind of the same as saying whether you use SL or Lion+
"Just call me shitload, cause I own a shitload of plugins!"
mikebeck
KVRian
 
751 posts since 14 Aug, 2005

Postby mikebeck; Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:05 pm

For what it's worth...
I was dead set on staying at Snow Leopard until I *had* to upgrade. Then I decided that I wouldn't want to have to upgrade by force (yeah, I know that sounds overly dramatic) and possibly be in the middle of something important in case things went wrong.
So - this weekend I made a fresh clone of my Snow Leopard system drive, bought the $20 Mountain Lion upgrade and installed it over the top of my existing Snow Leopard system. This is something I would almost never do - I usually do a clean install - but I wanted to see what would happen, and if it didn't work, I'd only be out about an hour or two.
So far, I've only had to upgrade a few drivers (Apogee Duet, Novation Automap and a few others), and everything seems to be working fine. In fact everything seems to be working better as well as faster. I'm almost to the point of being amazed.
Without going into too much detail, I've bought most of the major DAWs and a lot of plugins. I haven't run into anything yet that isn't working, aside from the drivers I already mentioned.
I suppose I should mention that this iMac is used only for audio and internet, and I keep it running fairly clean. I ran utilities to make sure things were looking good before upgrading (Disk Warrior, permissions repair, etc.).
Of course, there's no way to guarantee that anybody else would have the same upgrade experience, but I thought it was worth writing it all out to let somebody know that a smooth upgrade was possible.
It's also pretty cool that the whole thing has only cost $20 (so far, anyway), since I have some spare hard drives for cloning. I know I'll have to buy a Disk Warrior upgrade, but that may be all the extra I have to spend.
JoeCat
KVRian
 
777 posts since 19 May, 2011, from North Carolina

Postby JoeCat; Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:46 pm

I don't fear the OS upgrades, but the App Store concept. Comes to AU's and we're screwed.

Microsoft is trying to head in that direction. The idea of OS and hardware manufacturers taking such a large cut of software revenue is somewhat obscene (and I'm a capitalist).

Along the same lines, the consumer-oriented trend of all tech is wrecking the horizontal market for the cutting edge. Signs of this are Apple dropping the 17" MacBook, Adobe's trends towards subscription models for consumers, development resources tossed at smartphone apps ("I make mad beatz on my phone!").

If you can sell a million units of a two-buck app, why risk the development of a full-fledged DAW, instrument, etc.?

Sigh...
kgdrum
KVRist
 
196 posts since 12 Sep, 2005, from NYC

Postby kgdrum; Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:11 pm

An interesting development occurred in relation to SL10.68 and UAD,UA updated the software to version 6.5 and reintroduced Snow Leopard & 32bit kernel support!
I guess they saw enough users wanted to stay with SL or didn't have 64bit kernel capable rigs so the reversed course a bit.
So it looks like UA decided there's still enough users entrenched in Snow Leopard to continue support and development with 10.6 for the time being.
Last edited by kgdrum on Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MacPro 3.1 (2.8 Quad)24gig,OSX10.83, DP8.05 RME FF800,Great River ME-1NV,a few mics ,NI Komplete,numerous VI's & plugins vDrums TD20 expanded,Superior 2 etc,,UAD2...Focal Twin 6 monitors, Shunyata,hard drives galore.
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