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Unplugged Acoustic concerts reality check?

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.

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KVRian
 
941 posts since 12 Jan, 2010, from Copenhagen

Postby TwoToneshuzz; Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:21 am Unplugged Acoustic concerts reality check?

I'm going to start improving my ears and training my musical muscle away from all my many toys acquired recently.

My idea is to seek out some real acoustic sound experience once again.

Classical music at the relatively new Danmarks Radios Concert hall here in Copenhagen is my first focus..

Already bought my first ticket to Edvard Griegs Peter Gynt.

There's also a Beethoven series so I think I'll hop in on that for Symphonies 6 and 7.

I'll dig up some choir concerts at some of the many churches here in Copenhagen, there's many high quality choirs in Scandinavia and northern Europe that pass through. I'm into Renaiscance, Lassus Ockegeim, Gesualdo. But modern and romantic with orchestra and baroque has a lot to offer as well.


I will go to a few modern music concerts John Frandsens new Requiem is on the program so I'll jump into that seat.

Maybe some ethnic, North Indian, concerts.

Critia is Acoustic instruments in decent halls.

Jazz is also good and there's a lively scene in Copenhagen.

My idea is to get a taste of the real so my ears and brain can get a more balanced sonic reference..

Anybody here on KVR done anything like this recently?
Last edited by TwoToneshuzz on Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
waves break, but somehow it all makes sense.
KVRian
 
941 posts since 12 Jan, 2010, from Copenhagen

Postby TwoToneshuzz; Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:28 pm

So we are all here interested in Software and devices to create sound scapes and tracks. But not many go to actual concerts where the main source of sounds are acoustic physically generated by human physical input..All switches and knobs then. Interesting...
waves break, but somehow it all makes sense.
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KVRAF
 
2596 posts since 2 Jul, 2007, from Oxycontin Acres, Georgia, USA

Postby SODDI; Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:30 pm

Good luck - but I'd be willing to bet that you'll be hard-pressed to find a modern symphonic orchestra that does not use some form of electronic sonic enhancement somewhere, from miked pianos to amplified chorus.

Likewise jazz - electric guitars and pianos.
KVRian
 
941 posts since 12 Jan, 2010, from Copenhagen

Postby TwoToneshuzz; Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:55 pm

SODDI wrote:Good luck - but I'd be willing to bet that you'll be hard-pressed to find a modern symphonic orchestra that does not use some form of electronic sonic enhancement somewhere, from miked pianos to amplified chorus.

Likewise jazz - electric guitars and pianos.


Well being a Tonemeister I was working at the Radio House for a few months and no they weren't enhancing the sound with any extra eletronic amplification of any kind.

The Concert hall at Danmarks Radio is a big expensive acoustic enviroment, recently finished. Terribly over budget. So that's how it is.

Most Classical/baroque, Renaiscance concerts I've both recorded and when I've been a member of the public have not used any electronics..

What I find is the acoustic instruments and real unamplified voices sounds breathe in an acoustic space, making me the listener lean forward, perk up my ears so I don't risk missing anything in the quiet passages. There's magic in the space between the sounds..

Going to a concert in a Hall like Carnegie in New York with a top end orchestra the first thing you notice is how the sounds fill the space, Not overpowering mostly very clear though with a touch of diffusion, not drowned in reverb or decernable echoes, comfortable, attractive, balanced..

I suppose the greatest challenge in electronic generated and amplified sound is the heaviness, rich cream quality, as if the concept of sound quality is based on the fear of not being rich enough, not enough fullness, so the means of combatting thinness/in your faceness, results in lack of dynamic range, micro detail, timbral cues as to what exactly the sounds charataristics are doing and what their signifcants are emotionally and contextually. Electronic productions often have difficulty sustaining interest over longer streaches. In a word we tire of the sameness of the dynamics or each individual voice or timbres lack of depth and breadth timbrally speaking..
Last edited by TwoToneshuzz on Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
waves break, but somehow it all makes sense.
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KVRAF
 
2535 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from Raincoast of Grayland

Postby mandolarian; Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:15 pm

TwoToneshuzz wrote:I suppose the greatest challenge in electronic generated and amplified sound is the heaviness, rich cream quality, as if the concept of sound quality is based on the fear of not being rich enough, not enough fullness, so the means of combatting thinness/in your faceness, results in lack of dynamic range, micro detail, timbral cues as to what exactly the sounds charataristics are doing and what their signifcants are emotionally and contextually. Electronic productions often have difficulty sustaining interest over longer streaches. In a word we tire of the sameness of the dynamics or each individual voice or timbres lack of depth and breadth timbrally speaking..


Great points about the natural acoustic density and subtly of live acoustic music. It's too easy and tempting ITB to make everything louder than everything else. And even then it must be louder! :D
perception: the stuff reality is made of.
KVRian
 
941 posts since 12 Jan, 2010, from Copenhagen

Postby TwoToneshuzz; Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:05 am

The new suscription year for the Radio Symfony orchestra just started today at 10 am today, so now I'm booked in on 8 Concerts for the next year for 20 percent off, chose mostly the cheapest tickets, but when I'm in so early I'll get the best "worst" seats. Plus I bought an addition 6 tickets for various concerts. I'm joining a Chamber Music Society which offers 7 concerts for 400 kr(around usd 80), and am planning on going to a Baroque concert tommorrow a 4 pm.

I figure I'm doing my part to keep the Symphony going as well as improving my understanding of sounds propagation in large well designed acoustic spaces..That as well as helping get on track with my structural anayliss of the classical greats. Composition techniques.

It's been years since I've done such a intensive concert going program. So it's like being reborn into the non virtual space.

I was actually suprised at the price reduction and the benefits of getting in on the subscription if you go with the cheapest tickets..

I get two free guest tickets as well as access to advance box office sales concerts..

I'm having difficulty finding any organization that offers classical Indian or other ethnic concerts....

The keyword is good to great acoustic spaces, and non electronically amplified instruments and voices..

Got to go hunting for more modern music offerings..Check out the Jazz clubs..

Copenhagen is really a Gem when it comes to great concert halls and talented musicians..
Last edited by TwoToneshuzz on Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
waves break, but somehow it all makes sense.
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KVRAF
 
5561 posts since 8 May, 2008, from ssssskipping ......... I left you there

Postby standalone; Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:31 am

SODDI wrote:Good luck - but I'd be willing to bet that you'll be hard-pressed to find a modern symphonic orchestra that does not use some form of electronic sonic enhancement somewhere, from miked pianos to amplified chorus.


You are wrong. The amplification that modern symphonic orchestras use is called steel strings and was introduced more than a century ago.

You can see microphones in some outdoors concerts and that's it.
KVRian
 
941 posts since 12 Jan, 2010, from Copenhagen

Postby TwoToneshuzz; Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:35 am

standalone wrote:
SODDI wrote:Good luck - but I'd be willing to bet that you'll be hard-pressed to find a modern symphonic orchestra that does not use some form of electronic sonic enhancement somewhere, from miked pianos to amplified chorus.


You are wrong. The amplification that modern symphonic orchestras use is called steel strings and was introduced more than a century ago.

You can see microphones in some outdoors concerts and that's it.


That's an good observation!


Oh by the way I just spent more then the cost of a Synth like Zebra on tickets. For one year of acoustic nothingness !

Come on KVR eletronic generation get out and hear the aspects of acoustic sound that have been developed over centuries, played in decent concert halls or churches with good acoustics. You'll be suprised how diffrent it is from most any recorded and playback experience. It's an easy and enjoyable study..

Now I'm not down on electronic music generation, it's just to deepen and broaden my experience level while I work out what to do with all my fantastic digital tools..
waves break, but somehow it all makes sense.
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KVRAF
 
19860 posts since 26 Jul, 2005, from Inside Schroedinger's Cat...or am I...

Postby robojam; Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:30 am

SODDI wrote:Good luck - but I'd be willing to bet that you'll be hard-pressed to find a modern symphonic orchestra that does not use some form of electronic sonic enhancement somewhere, from miked pianos to amplified chorus.

You'd be surprised how often that doesn't happen when large orchestras play in old theaters. If the layout of the orchestra is correct, then it really shouldn't need any amplification.

I worked in venues with orchestras whose only consumption of electricity was the lights on their music stands. No sound reinforcement at all, but lots of focus on positioning everyone correctly.
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addled muppet weed
 
34209 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass
 

Postby vurt; Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:39 am

TwoToneshuzz wrote:So we are all here interested in Software and devices to create sound scapes and tracks. But not many go to actual concerts where the main source of sounds are acoustic physically generated by human physical input..All switches and knobs then. Interesting...


i attend many gigs, of many different styles. im just not doing it as a sabbattical from electronics, iv just always atteded gigs by virtue of being interested in the music.
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KVRAF
 
19860 posts since 26 Jul, 2005, from Inside Schroedinger's Cat...or am I...

Postby robojam; Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:22 am

Just sitting in a coffee shop and hearing a couple of people singing and playing quietly is pretty awesome too. Doesn't have to be any kind of organized gig - just a chance to listen to some good music.
KVRian
 
941 posts since 12 Jan, 2010, from Copenhagen

Postby TwoToneshuzz; Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:44 am

robojam wrote:Just sitting in a coffee shop and hearing a couple of people singing and playing quietly is pretty awesome too. Doesn't have to be any kind of organized gig - just a chance to listen to some good music.


So true! I'm studying what happens in reasonably good acoustic spaces so yes some cafe's have an okay sound.
waves break, but somehow it all makes sense.
KVRian
 
941 posts since 12 Jan, 2010, from Copenhagen

Postby TwoToneshuzz; Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:42 am

Okay I've been out to an Organ Koncert at the Chruch of Our Saviour in Copenhagen "Vor Freslers Kirken". Travel time door to door, 1 minute...

Program was quite a blend of styles/historic periods. I went and found a spot in the huge spacious church that put me just back of the cross, sitting facing the Organ for the whole concert expcept the last piece. An arrangement of The Bach Chaconne for violin. Interesting to experiece just how all directional information got lost when my head and ears faced the other way..

Acoustically the space seemed perfectly suited to the 200 year old instrument..

I enjoyed the concert immensely , and it was Free!!

Organist- Tina Christiansen

Program

Yngve Sköld (1889-1992) Adagio "Swedish Mozart"

Feliks Nolowoiejski (1877-1946) Symfony in F-minor, opus 45. nr 9, 1st movement, Toccata

Dimitrij Sjostakovitj (1906-75) 2 pieces for the film "THe Gadfly) opus 97:, "Credo" and "The Cahedral Service"

Lars Kkristian Hansen (1948- ) (Organist at the Chruch or our Saviour at Odense) Dawn Light and creation (2012) Really an excellent piece, full rich and orgiastic! Fully exploits the timbra possiblities of the Organ..

Erik Højsggard (1954- ) Twilight, Interesting study mysterious beating shrouded tones which evoke the feeling of seeing beautiful light play at a great distance..


J.S Bach (1685-1750) Choconne in D-monor- from violinpartita BWV 1004

transskribede for organ by Wilhelm Middelsculte (1863-1943)

A great piece on the violin and it's intereseting to see what happens to it arranged for Organ. It became huge, momument. Dominating the whole concert it pushed the other works into the background. Which is a little bit of a shame as I really really enjoyed the more unknown sounds. And the Chaconne would perhaps of fit better with a baroque and classical program. I felt finishing off the concert with another twentieth century work would have given a more cohesive impression for this 1 hour musical journey.

The 300 year old organ at the Chruch of our Saviour in Copenhagen is beautifully tweaked and really worth catching in action if you are ever in Copenhagen.. I could not find a fault it is timbral quality never shrill nor muddy, powerful when needed but very sweet and clear in the quiet passages. Really a joy..

Orglets nuværende disposition (Dates give the angiver year of installation):


Hovedværk (II):

Principal 16' (1698)
Oktav 8' (1965)
Fløjte 8' (1965)
Gedakt 8' (1998)
Fløjte 4' (2009)
Quint 2 2/3' (1939)
Oktav 2' (1965)
Sesquialtera II (1939)
Mixtur V (1965)
Scharff III (1965)
Trompet 16' (1957)
Trompet 8' (1957)


Brystværk (IV):

Trægedakt 8' (1939)
Gedaktfløjte 4' (1939)
Waldfløjte 2' (1939)
Oktav 1' (1965)
Klokkecymbel II (1965)
Regal 8' (1957)
Tremulant


Effekttræk:

Cymbelstjerne (1698)
Kuk-kuk (1698)
Nattergal (1965)



Svelleværk (III):

Bordun 16' (1889)
Rørfløjte 8' (1939)
Gamba 8' (1965)
Voix celeste 8' (1965)
Principal 4' (1965)
Kobbelfløjte 4' (1939)
Spidsquint 2 2/3' (1965)
Fløjte 2' (1965)
Terts 1 3/5' (1939)
Sivfløjte 1' (1939)
Mixtur V (1939)
Trompet 8' (1965)
Obo 8' (1939)
Clairon 4' (1983)
Tremulant


Pedalværk:

Principal 16' (1698)
Violon 16' (1889)
Subbas 16' (1889)
Quint 10 2/3' (1889)
Oktav 8' (1965)
Gedakt 8' (1889)
Oktav 4' (1976)
Fløjte 4' (1965)
Cornet IV (1939)
Mixtur VI (1939)
Basun 16' (1889)
Trompet 8' (1965)
Trompet 4' (1976)



Rygpositiv (I):

Principal 8' (1698)
Quintatøn 8' (1889)
Gedakt 8' (1965)
Oktav 4' (1698)
Rørfløjte 4' (1939)
Oktav 2' (1976)
Quint 2 2/3' (1998)
Fløjte 2' (1998)
Terts 1 3/5' (1998)
Nasat 1 1/3' (1965)
Scharff IV (1965)
Dulcian 16' (1957)
Krumhorn 8' (1972)


Manualkoblinger:

(elektriske eller mekaniske):
Hovedværk + Rygpositiv
Hovedværk + Brystværk
(elektriske):
Hovedværk + Svelleværk
Rygpositiv + Svelleværk


Pedalkoblinger:

(mekaniske):
Pedal + Hovedværk
Pedal + Rygpositiv
Pedal + Svelleværk

Excerpt from the chruches own information sheet on the Organ..

Tina Christiansen was an excellent performer. The space was perfect I sat transfixed. Taking mental notes on how the sounds blended, mix of direct and diffuse sounds. I read on Gearslutz an opinion, that the Organ sound in a Church is all Diffuse /reflected but at this concert I clearly felt I could lokalise the sounds coming from the various ranks when facing the organ, so that would indicate as least a fair percent of the mid high frequency sounds were reaching me before the reflected sounds. The spatial placement of the various ranks was a delightful extra element of interest in the listening experience. I also enjoyed how sharp dynamics shifts in a composition functioned as a kind of room size cue. Loud full passages seemed to compress the spatial sensation and actually make the space seem smaller whereas quiet passages created a sense of expanding space an effect zooming out on the rooms perspective.. Interesting and rewarding..
waves break, but somehow it all makes sense.

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