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Is there any reason to use Reason anymore?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

KVRAF
 
1573 posts since 18 Aug, 2004, from Toronto

Postby allofdrab; Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:01 pm

JoeCat wrote:
decalogue wrote:The only software that I have a genuine respect for is Renoise. That software alone is worth 10 times more than all other DAWs on the planet combined.


Renoise is the most underrated...thing. :)

Every time there's a thread like this I think "what's the context". I mean, if you have a particular goal/workflow in mind, a tool may or may not work for you. But if your creativity is more open-ended, different tools can inspire different results. I find most things a lot easier to do in Live than Renoise, but Renoise inspires me to do something different. If I have the time/money I'd probably pick up Reason just for the change of scenery.

One thing that's wild about Renoise is that, even after all these years; it's development is really picking up pace, and with the scripting options it's becoming a real mind-bender. The scripting feature is sort of like Renoise's back panel. No graphical wires though,...
drab
KVRist
 
291 posts since 1 May, 2009

Postby sellyoursoul; Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:49 am

deep'n'dark wrote:In all seriousness; Reason could be called a DAW nowdays, because it does Audio and has a 3rd party plugins - this wasn't a case before. I would ask that what does Reason not do, that other DAWs do? In the end of the day we all create an instrument and apply effects, usually nothing else is done so I gotta wonder that what do some of you mean, when you say that Reason is far behind?

Only thing that comes to my mind is that Reason effects aren't the best out there but now, with the Rack Extensions we can change that issue too. Some say, we need this, we need that: but you rarely need anything else that Reason already does.

Today I asked myself a question, because I have used Reason for 10 years, the question was: Do I really use Reason to it's full potential? I quickly answred my question and the answer was: No, I don't use Reason even close to it's full potential. I have a Intel i7 3,4 Ghz and 16 GB Ram - I can go crazy with my projects, because my powerful PC allows me to do that.
All these years I have been making music with Reason, and proved myself that "Yes, I can archive this and that with the combinator" or "I can create this sound too with Reason after all" But every DAW needs some work - Reason isn't an exception.

Let me ask a question: When you've created an instrument, Do you tweak it a lot or are you in a hurry to make tomorrow's hit and you release half-baked music all of the time? I know I've been on this boat myself. But some days, when I launch Reason, I feel really good about it, - I feel that I'm able to do everything with it. The FSB effect library is huge and it has so many different sounding patches and lot of them sound Great! + I've made many effects myself. The thing is that, the raw and boring instruments wont do it. Usually every instrument needs some EQ or reverb, sometimes some modulation or compression . . . and it needs to sound right. To make it right, it needs your focused judgement and ears. If your motto would be like Adam Fielding has said: "It's right when it's right" and you'd be mixing that in your mind, you'd be doing a lot better music.

To sum it all up: Treat your instruments, Record perfect audio takes - mix like a Master - choose the right sounds, draw interesting midi arrangements, take down the flaws and you'll notice how big difference there is comapared when you're a lazy whining studio-rat!


Reason is behind in effects, instrument devices, audio editing, midi capabilities, customization options, and real plugin support. When you run into missing features on a regular basis, it's time to move on. It's not about using every corner of Reason, it's about Reason cockblocking the things that you need. "Well, I need a trailer hitch" re: "Have you tried the sunroof? It's all you need."

I very much dislike the factory sound bank. Some of the sampled content is decent enough, but as far as effects and presets go....yuck. I'm not much of a preset user any way. Shaping sound is inspirational to me, as much as making music...scratch that...it is part of making music. No one has a better idea of what I need, in order to make the sounds that I want to hear, than me. Music and sound are personal things. A person needs some room to stretch out, experiment, and find what works for his/her own music. That is the problem with Reason. A single company is trying to define what users need, in every way. Other daws support the thousands of already available plugins, have scripting abilities, low level modularity, etc. The combinator is handy for grouping devices and modulations, but it doesn't make up for missing functionality. If Propellerhead doesn't know what that missing functionality is, then I guess they aren't listening to what users want. Instead, they are trying to sell you what they think you want. I want to shape the software to what I do, not shape what I do to the software. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qnd-hdmgfk

Use what works for you, I guess. Reason is not working for me. And btw, I'm not so much of a hits guy. Most of the music that I listen to never got time on mainstream radio, before radio turned into the corporate ad jukebox that it is today.

P.s.: Don't get me wrong. I think that Reason has some good points, and I would like to see it get to where it needs to be as a daw. The more viable choices among music making software, the merrier. But Props has to stop it with this "It's all you need" bs. Less marketing, more substance.
KVRian
 
843 posts since 8 Feb, 2006
 

Postby deep'n'dark; Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:41 am

sellyoursoul, sometimes when I hear some tune then I must admitt - I get a feeling that this can't be made within Reason, because if I could I'd be already made a song that sounds like that in my 10 years history of using Reason. At least i'm honest.
Image
KVRist
 
110 posts since 21 Jan, 2007

Postby overhishead; Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:06 pm

Well, I believe you guys and gals answered my question. A lot of pros and cons for the market to judge.

It seems to me, after reading most of these posts, that Propellerheadz is a different kind of virtual instrument company, one that believes in making virtual gear itself, and challenging its users to interface with that gear in more of a virtual reality sort of way.

And, in reflection, it seems that VST/AU are almost antithetical to what Propellerheadz seems to stand for. Maybe VST is like windows and Propellerheadz is like Apple?
KVRAF
 
7475 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
 

Postby headquest; Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:14 am

sellyoursoul wrote: Reason is behind in effects, instrument devices, audio editing, midi capabilities, customization options, and real plugin support. When you run into missing features on a regular basis, it's time to move on. It's not about using every corner of Reason, it's about Reason cockblocking the things that you need. "Well, I need a trailer hitch" re: "Have you tried the sunroof? It's all you need."


Exactly.

Since I stopped using Reason a few months ago my music production and the sound quality of my tracks has improved hugely. I'm using better instruments, better efffects, better mixing tools, and a DAW that isn't a visual mess that I get lost in all the time. With the exception of Pianoteq 4, I don't own/use expensive VSTs either - it's just that the bundled content in my current DAW is vastly better than anything that comes in Reason, plus there's some fantastic freeware plugins.

Reason is a hugely over-rated and dated programme, but surrounded by hype....
KVRist
 
110 posts since 21 Jan, 2007

Postby overhishead; Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:48 am

Hey Propellerheadz, if you are reading this: why don't you guys bend just a little bit and release some VST/AU stuff?

Better yet, futureproof yourselves maybe by going over to Linux and dominating over there with a gang of kick ass native plugs?
KVRian
 
1084 posts since 12 Mar, 2005

Postby polaris20; Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:43 am

Actually picking up Reason shortly. I miss using it, haven't used it since the Reason 2.5 days. Can't wait to give it a go now. How's it play with Studio One on a Mac?
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KVRAF
 
18420 posts since 26 Jul, 2005, from Inside Schroedinger's Cat...or am I...

Postby robojam; Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:40 am

overhishead wrote:Hey Propellerheadz, if you are reading this: why don't you guys bend just a little bit and release some VST/AU stuff?

You make it sound like that's a trivial change that would take little effort and not be impactful to the stability of the existing platform.

It's been discussed hundreds of times before, and there's no sign of it happening. Why would they move into an already overcrowded market and be just another DAW?
KVRAF
 
7475 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
 

Postby headquest; Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:17 am

robojam wrote: Why would they move into an already overcrowded market and be just another DAW?


Good question, but isn't that exactly what they have done?

Except that Reason 6.5 isn't "just another" DAW - it's a substandard one that lacks many of the basics of a modern DAW, such as delay compensation for it's own instruments/effects, let alone RE ones. And such as decent audio editing, track freeze, group/folder tracks, support for standard file formats including MP3, video support, etc etc.

And as has been demonstrated, it uses massively more CPU per instrument/effect than the identical VST ones in any other host. So it's not really "just another DAW" just yet - it has a huge amount of catching up to do.

I think they basically realised - as suggested in the OP - that there no longer is "a reason for Reason" in terms of their original (and excellent) vision. THere are better hosts, and there are better instruments and effects. So far as I can see all they are doing now is fighting off the inevitable, making as much money as they can while they still can, and ensuring through RE sales that users are locked into Reason through (very) heavy investment.

After more than a decade of saying Reason is a complete music making software, they go and release RE which suggests they don't even believe their own claims. Why should we?
KVRian
 
777 posts since 20 Feb, 2004

Postby ravasb; Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:26 am

Reason is a lot like my little brother. Frustrating, aggravating. Refuses to do a thing a say, but I still have an incredible amount of fun together. I agree with every criticism of the product, and I have never finished a single track in it, even though I have owned it since version two.

Nonetheless I have a great time experimenting with it, especially with the new CV REs and make a lot of great sounds that I bounce into my DAW that gives my less heartburn.

Whenever I hit a creative wall, I open Reason and start connecting cables and see what happens. I never, though, could use it as my only DAW.
If not now, when?
http://soundcloud.com/abergman
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KVRAF
 
18420 posts since 26 Jul, 2005, from Inside Schroedinger's Cat...or am I...

Postby robojam; Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:39 am

headquest wrote:
robojam wrote: Why would they move into an already overcrowded market and be just another DAW?


Good question, but isn't that exactly what they have done?

Not to the extent that they would if they just implemented all the same standards as other DAWs, such as VST/AU, etc.
KVRist
 
110 posts since 21 Jan, 2007

Postby overhishead; Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:59 am

robojam wrote:
overhishead wrote:Hey Propellerheadz, if you are reading this: why don't you guys bend just a little bit and release some VST/AU stuff?

You make it sound like that's a trivial change that would take little effort and not be impactful to the stability of the existing platform.

It's been discussed hundreds of times before, and there's no sign of it happening. Why would they move into an already overcrowded market and be just another DAW?


Pro's make it look easy, but as many of us know, its hard work.

Why move into an already overcrowded market? One could say that about every market. One might ask why humans still reproduce with that same logic.

I'm sure the devs at Propellerheadz know how to make VST plugins.

There must be a grudge somewhere... but I digress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug75diEyiA0
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KVRAF
 
2326 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:06 am

headquest wrote:
robojam wrote: Why would they move into an already overcrowded market and be just another DAW?


Good question, but isn't that exactly what they have done?

Not really. They added a interface to get 3rd party developers to develop their stuff to work in Reason, so they make sure their users stick to Reason. :) The thing is, there won't be a point for them to support VST and stuff like that, as, as already said, their program is inferior in terms of functionality, and they would have to catch up really quick to compete with the other big DAW's, plus bringing instability factors to their own system. It wouldn't really be very smart if they would make their system more open now. Maybe in 5 or 6 years, after a lot of testing, and adding functionality which gets them up to par with other sequencer programs.
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KVRAF
 
18420 posts since 26 Jul, 2005, from Inside Schroedinger's Cat...or am I...

Postby robojam; Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:11 am

overhishead wrote:Why move into an already overcrowded market? One could say that about every market.

One could, but it would not be correct. Particularly for the non-overcrowded markets.

overhishead wrote:One might ask why humans still reproduce with that same logic.

That is not the same logic. In fact that's probably one of the worst constructed straw men I've ever seen.
KVRist
 
155 posts since 6 Aug, 2011

Postby decalogue; Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:29 am

I think PH will be lost in 2-3 years from now unless they come up with something really original that define new trends like ReBirth and Reason once did. I guess what has happened to Props is that they have become so used to success and publicity that they started to lean back a few years ago thinking "let's just copy Apple's closed system concepts, including the AppStore, throw in some other successful company concepts like catchy one-liners and then attract the spoiled hipsters with cool hipster marketing" - and today they just enjoy the ride, making sure to secure an income from the customers who see Reason more as a lifestyle than as a tool for music production. Their product line seems more of a safe and steady row of milkcows rather than something that gets updated into the unsafe and unknown but original and pathbreaking. That's the feeling I get today when I look at PH: a rather tired company without the energy to create new trends, but only the energy to focus on existing trends and creating flashy marketing that stimulate the n00bs and lazy hipsters into reaching for their wallets.

However, I think it's good that PH is doing their thing. The closed system has many advantages and it's important that the music production eco system is rich and full of diversity. As a Reason user since 1.0, I salute Reason for what it's really good at, and that's being an inspirational and highly flexible modular system to play with when you want to have some fun.
Last edited by decalogue on Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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