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Sequence chopping...

Official support for: mutools.com

Moderators: mutools, muzycian

plutonia
KVRist
 
108 posts since 24 Sep, 2004

Postby plutonia; Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:48 pm

looking at this again and i reckon that having the notes/area outwith the split point greyed out(at the moment this may be the case but it isn't contrasted enough to be noticeable)so that it is obviously outwith the split would be useful.
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DHR53
KVRAF
 
2795 posts since 21 Oct, 2002, from "somewhere between digital and analog"

Postby DHR53; Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:35 am

After going over a comp I did recently and looking at the implications of this, there is no way this behavior is useful or correct. If a knife/razor tool was available, It would not "include" items cut. Being able to shorten the left and right boundaries of a midi clip is one thing... moving the notes within a clip's boundaries is another... cutting a clip in half means you want 2 separate clips not 2 variations of the original. That's what copy is for? I use this all the time as I'm not a keyboard player... I add and merge pieces from a lot of takes. I had been using this function mostly on drum clips to make unique sequence, but after doing some heavy midi editing I realized what was happening and it could not be overridden. Very confusing and well, not correct. :idea:
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plutonia
KVRist
 
108 posts since 24 Sep, 2004

Postby plutonia; Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:34 am

aye, i do agree with you on this but if you look at how it's implemented with start and end loop points etc, it is geared towards non-destructive editing and i reckon we're in the minority in wanting this feature changed unfortunately. it is the one part of mulab i really don't like cos i have to work around it though. it's got me thinking that the early days of using cubase on atari were much quicker and easier for midi editing with its implementation of toolbox functions, 'delete doubles' etc that was quick an easy to use and allowed me to move on swiftly to recording next part or track. return to right click toolbox choices, anyone?
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sl23
KVRian
 
622 posts since 28 Mar, 2008, from U.K.

Postby sl23; Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:28 am

+1 I liked the way Muzys had that R-click Toolbox.
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plutonia
KVRist
 
108 posts since 24 Sep, 2004

Postby plutonia; Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:16 am

sl23 wrote:+1 I liked the way Muzys had that R-click Toolbox.


yep, was using muzys the other day and like used in cubase/logic right click toolbox is good system to my way of thinking. can't see jo going back to toolbox though, and menu shortcuts in mulab just as good though when comes down to it.
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DHR53
KVRAF
 
2795 posts since 21 Oct, 2002, from "somewhere between digital and analog"

Postby DHR53; Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:19 am

Well Logic has the scissors tool which does exactly that. Cuts the item (whatever) in half at the point where you select. I'm scratching my head about the non-destructive part? I'm dividing the clip in 2 pieces... how is that destructive? It's only destructive if I delete one of them??? I can cut up a clip in 10 places but if I don't delete any of the parts it's all still there. That's like the program telling me, you can't delete part of this, only ALL of this. Sorry but that's pretty crazy.

And it's a large part of what I do with a DAW... :?
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robenestobenz
KVRAF
 
2929 posts since 18 Jul, 2005

Postby robenestobenz; Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:38 am

plutonia wrote:aye, i do agree with you on this but if you look at how it's implemented with start and end loop points etc, it is geared towards non-destructive editing and i reckon we're in the minority in wanting this feature changed unfortunately. it is the one part of mulab i really don't like cos i have to work around it though. it's got me thinking that the early days of using cubase on atari were much quicker and easier for midi editing with its implementation of toolbox functions, 'delete doubles' etc that was quick an easy to use and allowed me to move on swiftly to recording next part or track. return to right click toolbox choices, anyone?
I have to say, I detest the toolbox way of working. Mode switching is a cost in any interface or system, and I believe that it's never necessary with good design. Horses for courses.

I another shortcut for destructive/literal split would be cool though, the current behaviour does cause problems if you often merge stuff later, as some of you have said.
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DHR53
KVRAF
 
2795 posts since 21 Oct, 2002, from "somewhere between digital and analog"

Postby DHR53; Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:51 am

What would be the point of a merge command otherwise?
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pljones
KVRAF
 
4644 posts since 8 Feb, 2003, from London, UK

Postby pljones; Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:54 am

MuLab doesn't have "clips".

MuLab has parts and sequences. Parts refer to sequences. More than one part can refer to the same sequence. It's not one to one. (Similar to the way more than one track can target the same rack or other module.)

If you split a part, by default, the two new parts are sharing the sequence. If you copy a part, you can either copy-shared or copy-as-new - either sharing the sequence the part uses or getting a second copy.

If you understand that currently when you split, you are not operating on the sequence data, you'll see that it cannot make sense to affect that data when you do a split. What you could have is something akin to the two versions of copy: split-as-new (each part after the split references a new sequence) or split-shared (as it is now). Split-as-new could "tidy up" but then you'd need to make two copies of the original sequence so each was unique (as there could be another part already using it that you didn't want affected).
Last edited by pljones on Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
mutools
KVRAF
 
5651 posts since 24 Jun, 2008, from Europe

Postby mutools; Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:58 am

I agree with robenestobenz.

I'm thinking about splitting the sequence part's "Split" function into "Split (Shared)" and "Split (Unique)". Then both are available in the context menu and everyone can choose which one to assign a shortcut to.

Edit: Yes, as pljones also wrote (crossed posts).
mutools
KVRAF
 
5651 posts since 24 Jun, 2008, from Europe

Postby mutools; Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:05 am

pljones wrote:Split-as-new would could "tidy up" but then you'd need to make two copies of the original sequence so each was unique (as there could be another part already using it that you didn't want affected).


The new "Split (Unique)" function would not cleanup anything. I would leave that to a separate function (eg "Trim To Played"), cfr http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 15#5253215
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pljones
KVRAF
 
4644 posts since 8 Feb, 2003, from London, UK

Postby pljones; Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:07 am

Yes, then could you have a shortcut to do split, then trim both sequences?
mutools
KVRAF
 
5651 posts since 24 Jun, 2008, from Europe

Postby mutools; Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:19 am

With the M5 shortcut system you can assign more than 1 function to a shortcut key. Now in this case it will be sensitive whether the 'new' part of the split is selected after the split. I think it's ok to say yes on that. In which case the double function shortcut should work as expected.

Apart from that, also this note: There will always be functions/steps that take a couple of mouse-clicks/human interactions. That will be the case in any (music) app. And even if things can be automated by using scripts or whatever, then you still have to build those scripts. Bottomline: Don't forget to focus on the Music, maestros 8)
mutools
KVRAF
 
5651 posts since 24 Jun, 2008, from Europe

Postby mutools; Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:02 pm

On second thought i doubt that both those functions will be combinable in a single shortcut. Anyway, i agree that the "Split (Unique)" and "Trim To Played" functions will be helpful in certain situations. Both funx are on that long wishlist now. I don't think they're vital though for all that functionality is already in there now. It's only a matter of editing speed. Which is important of course. But as i wrote earlier: You will never have a 'perfect' app. Even not if you program it completely yourself bottom up. (the ultimate script)
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DHR53
KVRAF
 
2795 posts since 21 Oct, 2002, from "somewhere between digital and analog"

Postby DHR53; Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:12 pm

While I realize that Parts and Sequences seem to have similar characteristics, and can be targeted in many ways by tracks and racks. I find that just confusing and I suspect most people coming from a traditional DAW would also. The changes that have been implemented over the last few years to MuLab have made it much less esoteric... but the basics remain and the program still has a small footprint. I hate to say it's close to "exactly what I want." As that will probably alert Muso's to protest loudly... :)
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