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Is there any reason to use Reason anymore?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

User avatar
mellotronaut
KVRAF
 
9970 posts since 2 Jan, 2005, from somewhere in the woods

Postby mellotronaut; Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:46 am

decalogue wrote:I think PH will be gone in 2-3 years from now unless they come up with something really original that define new trends like ReBirth and Reason once did. I guess what has happened to Props is that they have become so used to success and publicity that they started to lean back a few years ago thinking "let's just copy Apple's closed system concepts, including the AppStore, throw in some other successful company concepts like catchy one-liners and then attract the spoiled hipsters with cool hipster marketing" - and today they just enjoy the ride, trying to secure an income from the existing customers who see Reason more as a lifestyle than as a tool for music production. Their product line seems more of a safe and steady milkcow rather than something that gets updated into the unsafe and unknown but original and pathbreaking. That's the feeling I get today when I look at PH: a rather tired company without the energy to create new trends, but only the energy to focus on existing trends and creating flashy marketing that stimulate the n00bs and lazy hipsters to reach for their wallets.


hmm ... i agree, though i'm not sure, they'll be gone that fast. ... and it makes me sad. i did a lot in Reason and i loved it. the decline began with Reason 4. instead of doing more modular stuff (synths, midi, cv), better and enhanced effects and important NNXT enhancements, they issued one 'big' synth and a not so big arpeggiator. ... and then came Record and the GUI disaster. :(
"It dreamed itself along"
anomandaris1
KVRist
 
81 posts since 26 Nov, 2009

Postby anomandaris1; Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:53 am

AudioGL is the new Reason :D
decalogue
KVRist
 
155 posts since 6 Aug, 2011

Postby decalogue; Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:14 am

mellotronaut wrote:
decalogue wrote:I think PH will be gone in 2-3 years from now unless they come up with something really original that define new trends like ReBirth and Reason once did.

hmm ... i agree, though i'm not sure, they'll be gone that fast. ... and it makes me sad. i did a lot in Reason and i loved it. the decline began with Reason 4. instead of doing more modular stuff (synths, midi, cv), better and enhanced effects and important NNXT enhancements, they issued one 'big' synth and a not so big arpeggiator. ... and then came Record and the GUI disaster. :(


I agree, the decline began with Reason 4. The simple sequencer that defined Reason prior to version 4 was actually superior to the new one IMO. That's one clear example of what I'd call "the stupidification of Reason": the introduction of boxed graphical icons for each device in the sequencer, eating up screen estate and generally making things more un-flexible.

I edited my post and changed the word "gone" into "lost", because I think PH still has the power to innovate for many years to come. I don't see PH driven off the market or something, it's just that they might be lost in the DAW competition in the sense of loosing ground when once loyal customers begin to look elsewhere for their DAW needs. Also the hipster types might yawn when their "I want a drum machine now!" turns more and more into "I want a hit song button now!", it's not the most rock-solid customer base in the long run.
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User avatar
mellotronaut
KVRAF
 
9970 posts since 2 Jan, 2005, from somewhere in the woods

Postby mellotronaut; Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:22 am

Reason 7 will give us the direction, the Props will turn to. now they are free to concentrate on the basics with all the REs coming out and give Reason a necessary overhaul.
"It dreamed itself along"
headquest
KVRAF
 
7475 posts since 6 Jul, 2004

Postby headquest; Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:27 am

robojam wrote:
headquest wrote:
robojam wrote: Why would they move into an already overcrowded market and be just another DAW?


Good question, but isn't that exactly what they have done?

Not to the extent that they would if they just implemented all the same standards as other DAWs, such as VST/AU, etc.


I don't really follow your logic there. They may not be copying the same "standards", but they are copying the same trends and adding all the functionality that makes a software programme be classed as a DAW - namely audio recording and mixing.

Their decision to use their own standards rather than the ones that the rest of the world uses is irrelevant to whether or not Reason is a DAW. Reason 6.5 is a Digital Audio Workstation in exactly the correct sense that everyone uses that term. It's just that it is clearly not a very good one.
headquest
KVRAF
 
7475 posts since 6 Jul, 2004

Postby headquest; Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:30 am

mellotronaut wrote:Reason 7 will give us the direction, the Props will turn to. now they are free to concentrate on the basics with all the REs coming out and give Reason a necessary overhaul.


Reason 7 will undoubtedly continue the trend of turning Reason into a standard DAW. They will be playing catch up. Perhaps they will get around to implementing delay compensation, audio warping/quantise, folder tracks, and a few other bog stadard DAW features that have been around for more than a decade.

In terms of what they traditionally did so well - making inspiring devices - the facts are more depressing....

Between 2000 and 2012 they produced just 8 instruments, all included as standard in the Reason Rack...

Since November 2012 release of Reason 6.5, they have produced three brand new instruments, none included as standard. They are all paid-for extras. Perhaps in Reason 7 they will bundle them, and effectively charge the same users to buy those same instruments a second time. Let's just see...
decalogue
KVRist
 
155 posts since 6 Aug, 2011

Postby decalogue; Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:34 am

Yes, I'm really looking forward to see what they're up to with the next Reason version now when they've left the development of new devices over to third parties. I personally hope they will have at least implemented a rocksolid PDC and then offered Figure natively in the Reason rack, so that we could send our Figure creations straight into Reason and edit them further within the Reason modular system.

When Bitwig version 1.0 comes out in 2017 it's probably going to appeal to many seasoned Reason users as well.
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User avatar
DHR53
KVRAF
 
2785 posts since 21 Oct, 2002, from "somewhere between digital and analog"

Postby DHR53; Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:37 am

I wish they would do one thing... let me preview presets (from my keyboard) from the rack. Not just from the arrange window. That one thing has always baffled me? I realize when it was first introduced it was all in one screen, but now you can separate the arrange window from the rack etc. forcing me to split the window into 3 sections to do that is dumb. If they've changed that... never mind. :)
Image
decalogue
KVRist
 
155 posts since 6 Aug, 2011

Postby decalogue; Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:38 am

headquest wrote:They will be playing catch up. Perhaps they will get around to implementing delay compensation, audio warping/quantise, folder tracks, and a few other bog stadard DAW features that have been around for more than a decade.

No, they will give us delay compensation, audio warping/quantise and folder tracks DONE RIGHT. I can already hear that voice from the upcoming marketing videos. :cry:
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headquest
KVRAF
 
7475 posts since 6 Jul, 2004

Postby headquest; Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:44 am

decalogue wrote:
headquest wrote:They will be playing catch up. Perhaps they will get around to implementing delay compensation, audio warping/quantise, folder tracks, and a few other bog stadard DAW features that have been around for more than a decade.

No, they will give us delay compensation, audio warping/quantise and folder tracks DONE RIGHT. I can already hear that voice from the upcoming marketing videos. :cry:


Haha, indeed. Everyone else did those features wrong all these years but the mighty Propellerhead waited until the exact best time to do it right and be revolutionary!
User avatar
robojam
KVRAF
 
20531 posts since 26 Jul, 2005, from Inside Schroedinger's Cat...or am I...

Postby robojam; Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:51 am

headquest wrote:I don't really follow your logic there. They may not be copying the same "standards", but they are copying the same trends and adding all the functionality that makes a software programme be classed as a DAW - namely audio recording and mixing.

But they are not implementing third party standards and using third party APIs to do so - they may be adding 'plug ins', but they are implementing their own standard there.

Yes, they have implemented the audio recording capability, but my comments were around the oft-repeated request for VST capability. That is where I don't feel they need to go as there are plenty of DAWs out there that already cover that ground.

headquest wrote:It's just that it is clearly not a very good one.

I don't think that's clear at all. It's perfectly fine for those whose workflows Reason fits into. Obviously not yours, but that doesn't mean it's not a good one for others.
OzWozEre
KVRist
 
353 posts since 5 Nov, 2012

Postby OzWozEre; Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:12 am

In slightly offtopic territory:

Have you seen the price of Recycle?

I was only looking at it as an "integration/bridge" --> Stylus RMX, but $250! Sheezzzlouise :help:

Looks like their ability to create and corner markets based around their own standards and technology is pretty successful not?

:cry:

Edit: In other words maybe they're quite happy to play their own game with regards to 3rd party plus & VSTs etc. Seems to be working for them thus far.
Crackbaby
KVRAF
 
2842 posts since 10 Sep, 2003, from Karlskoga, Stockholm, Sweden

Postby Crackbaby; Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:26 am

do you know if they're working on improving the sequencer? having five shortcuts for changing the cursor is nuts!
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User avatar
mellotronaut
KVRAF
 
9970 posts since 2 Jan, 2005, from somewhere in the woods

Postby mellotronaut; Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:33 am

headquest wrote:
mellotronaut wrote:Reason 7 will give us the direction, the Props will turn to. now they are free to concentrate on the basics with all the REs coming out and give Reason a necessary overhaul.


Reason 7 will undoubtedly continue the trend of turning Reason into a standard DAW. They will be playing catch up. Perhaps they will get around to implementing delay compensation, audio warping/quantise, folder tracks, and a few other bog stadard DAW features that have been around for more than a decade.

In terms of what they traditionally did so well - making inspiring devices - the facts are more depressing....

Between 2000 and 2012 they produced just 8 instruments, all included as standard in the Reason Rack...

Since November 2012 release of Reason 6.5, they have produced three brand new instruments, none included as standard. They are all paid-for extras. Perhaps in Reason 7 they will bundle them, and effectively charge the same users to buy those same instruments a second time. Let's just see...


:help: :hihi:
"It dreamed itself along"
liquidsound
KVRAF
 
2472 posts since 30 May, 2006, from US / Italy

Postby liquidsound; Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:19 pm

Maybe they will create a separated sequencer as they did with Record with an unbelievable excuse and then incorporate it into Reason 8 as they did with Record. :-o
That should be much easier than fixing the sinking boat.
MuLab & MUX, Zebra-Bazille-ACE-Diva-Diversion-Dune2-Xils4-Aalto
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