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Sequence chopping...

Official support for: mutools.com

Moderators: mutools, muzycian

Hermu
KVRist
 
197 posts since 26 Jul, 2012

Postby Hermu; Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:04 am

mutools wrote:It depends on what you want to do. I have the impression that you seem to assume that the only reason for a split is to delete the splitted section. There are other reasons too eg move or copy the split, edit the split, ...

In this case i mean this for deleting the last part of a recorded sequence.
I thought i can do this with the split functionality, how its possible in other DAWs.
mutools
KVRAF
 
5552 posts since 24 Jun, 2008, from Europe

Postby mutools; Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:07 am

Well i'm sure that, in that case, in other daws you can also choose between split+delete or shorten the part, which in that case indeed gives the same result.
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pljones
KVRAF
 
4554 posts since 8 Feb, 2003, from London, UK

Postby pljones; Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:00 am

Hm. So if I have a sequence part where no other part shares that sequence, then I do split, I get two sequence parts, each with a complete unique version of the original sequence (the original, in the left-hand part and the new unique copy in the right-hand part)? But if I do the same thing to a sequence part that's not using a shared sequence, I don't get the right-hand part made unique automatically? I think that's inconsistent... but there are several places that are inconsistent like that already (i.e. my pedantry doesn't always win ;)). I can see the argument for it and I agree it's likely to smooth workflow in some situations.

I'd still like both ways - shared and unique - to be available on split, though. That way I can choose and don't have to guess/remember/check whether I still have the part shared or not (as that changes whilst I work). It would be less surprising.
mutools
KVRAF
 
5552 posts since 24 Jun, 2008, from Europe

Postby mutools; Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:18 am

pljones wrote:Hm. So if I have a sequence part where no other part shares that sequence, then I do split, I get two sequence parts, each with a complete unique version of the original sequence (the original, in the left-hand part and the new unique copy in the right-hand part)? But if I do the same thing to a sequence part that's not using a shared sequence, I don't get the right-hand part made unique automatically?


Yes that's what i'm proposing.

I think that's inconsistent...


It depends how you look at it. You could also say it's consistent: Unique stays unique, shared stays shared.

but there are several places that are inconsistent like that already


Which ones?

I'd still like both ways - shared and unique - to be available on split, though.


Mmm, it's not my intention. The above proposal is a replacement for the earlier proposal to split the Split function into Split Unique and Split Shared.
Having both those funx available bloats/complicates the context menu :?

That way I can choose and don't have to guess/remember/check whether I still have the part shared or not (as that changes whilst I work). It would be less surprising.


Whether a part is unique or shared is clearly indicated in the part title so there would be no surprises i think. Right?
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DHR53
KVRAF
 
2795 posts since 21 Oct, 2002, from "somewhere between digital and analog"

Postby DHR53; Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:16 am

Maybe you could explain to me what your using shared parts for? I've never used that feature once. If I need to automate the filter on my bass track, I certainly wouldn't use that automation sequence on my pads would I? If I wanted to automate a filter cutoff on the entire mix, I wouldn't use that elsewhere either. If you can give me a good example of the amazing powers of "parts" maybe I'll be enlightened but in the mean time I simply hit "record" and play. Then add fx as an insert or on the buss and I chop and move sequences around to suit my needs. If you want to call them parts, that's fine with me but I use sequences for what I'm doing...

p.s. I searched the documentation online for "parts" and nothing shows up, by the way? :shrug:
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Bonteburg
Hun #3
 
4228 posts since 24 Mar, 2002, from A quaint little village just south of Hamburg, Germany

Postby Bonteburg; Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:34 am

Comparing Logic to MULAB right now and I have to say I don't really swing either way ...

When you split a sequence in Logic with the scissors you get two parts that contain only the note data of the newly created part, each of them being a sequence proper in MULAB speak.

When you do the same in MULAB with the split-in-place command you also get two parts but what was 'the other half' is still existing on the pasteboard as it were. Or rather you're opening two windows looking at the same sequence but from a different angle - again, the whole part paradigm I think.

I guess you could say MULAB gets a tad more circuitous than Logic once you try to make such a piece of a sequence longer by using the loop point method because you then have to delete the excess notes.

I mostly work with merging sequences on composition level which appears to work the same in Logic and MULAB regardless of the split implementation - a completely new sequence, devoid of residue MIDI is created.


Marco :)
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DHR53
KVRAF
 
2795 posts since 21 Oct, 2002, from "somewhere between digital and analog"

Postby DHR53; Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:01 am

Sorry but that's not what happens... In Logic you get 2 clips. The notes before the split ONLY. And the notes after the split ONLY. Hence the term "cut"... scissors etc.

In MuLab you get a sequence with the notes before the split AND the notes after... and a sequence with the notes After the split and before. So the notes you wanted to "delete" you can ignore, delete manually, or scratch your head and wonder what "split" is for in the first place?

:?:
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Crackbaby
KVRAF
 
2837 posts since 10 Sep, 2003, from Karlskoga, Stockholm, Sweden

Postby Crackbaby; Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:07 am

One solution to this feudilemma could be to add a new command "chop" or "divide" where it does what DHR53 wants. Or even better, let it be set what it does in that text-file!! :)
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DHR53
KVRAF
 
2795 posts since 21 Oct, 2002, from "somewhere between digital and analog"

Postby DHR53; Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:45 am

For the record... In Logic there is a secondary tool, that you can set as a default... so whatever tool you might be using, you can hold down the cmnd. key and the tool will change to that set tool. Myself, I have that set to the scissors tool as you might expect, because I'm always cutting and merging clips to get what I want. Along with editing the notes themselves in the midi editor/piano roll.

If you think this is "unusual" or not "new-age" behavior and I should not be using MuLab because of this, I'd say I'm a little perplexed. I hate to think that a function so common and dare I say, used by everyone in music production cannot be implemented because it's too un-Mu like.

Arghh again! :)
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Bonteburg
Hun #3
 
4228 posts since 24 Mar, 2002, from A quaint little village just south of Hamburg, Germany

Postby Bonteburg; Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:27 pm

DHR53 wrote:Sorry but that's not what happens... In Logic you get 2 clips. The notes before the split ONLY. And the notes after the split ONLY. Hence the term "cut"... scissors etc.

In MuLab you get a sequence with the notes before the split AND the notes after... and a sequence with the notes After the split and before. So the notes you wanted to "delete" you can ignore, delete manually, or scratch your head and wonder what "split" is for in the first place?

:?:

I think we basically said the same thing in different words - the scissor tool in Logic creates two new sequences with different content and MULAB creates two parts playing different sections of the same sequence by means of differently positioned loop points. Confusion!!! :hihi:
Bonteburg
Hun #3
 
4228 posts since 24 Mar, 2002, from A quaint little village just south of Hamburg, Germany

Postby Bonteburg; Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:38 pm

I have to admit I kind of get your confusion about the reason of being of parts and sequences - off the top of my head, I couldn't come up with a unique selling point for them, but I don't see them as drawbacks or anything.
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DHR53
KVRAF
 
2795 posts since 21 Oct, 2002, from "somewhere between digital and analog"

Postby DHR53; Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:19 pm

I've always ignored the stuff in MuLab that either didn't make much sense to me or I didn't use... as long as I could do what I needed to do with it. And I continue to try and find value in some of the more unusual features and evaluate whether they makes things easier, faster or add something new to the process. But at the end of the day, I'm going to use it in a way that gets me from A to B quickest, and that's where my frustration usually comes from. Obviously midi editing is the most important thing to me, so I'm focused on quick cutting and pasting of clips... I don't share parts, and I don't take advantage of the modularity to build stuff... session or fx/instruments. I'll let other people do that. I use it as a sequencer. Period. And it does really well for the most part with OSX problems aside. I just like the overall look and approach of MuLab... of the OSX alternatives out there.

But I cringe whenever I come across something like this and think Oh No... I hope this is not a "feature."

:)
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