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Compressing kicks to make fish

How to do this, that and the other. Share, learn, teach. How did X do that? How can I sound like Y?

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Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
 
6365 posts since 6 Sep, 2008

Postby Mushy Mushy; Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:13 pm Compressing kicks to make fish

I thought I understood compression until tonight :x :shrug:

I was trying to compress a kick drum and expecting the resultant waveform to somewhat resemble a fish.
ie. immediate attack (the head), with a quick dip (neck), then a long arc (the body).

Assuming for the sake of argument the kick is 60 milliseconds I would have expected the following settings:
Threshold: Very low
Ratio: Very high
Attack: ~5 milliseconds
Release: ~50 milliseconds
Gain: High

This I thought would mean nothing happened for 5ms (the head) after which the signal was smashed right down (the neck), and the long release would create the body while the compressor gradually returns to where it started.

However, all I'm getting is the 5ms attack peak with a flat block following it (ie, looks like: |----)



:help: :help: :help:

BTW, I didn't set out to create a fish :oops: :hihi: , but to learn compression.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
Eauson
KVRist
 
152 posts since 8 Jan, 2013, from morf

Postby Eauson; Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:22 pm

Sound more like limiting than fishing :D
Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
 
6365 posts since 6 Sep, 2008

Postby Mushy Mushy; Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:23 pm

Eauson wrote:Sound more like limiting than fishing :D
True.
I was using extremes to see easily what was happening. Didn't work obviously.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
Eauson
KVRist
 
152 posts since 8 Jan, 2013, from morf

Postby Eauson; Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:31 pm

I know people tend not to like recipes
But a 4-1 ratio with the threshold around the meat of the beat is often good.
A little bit of attack and release to taste. :D
User avatar
V0RT3X
KVRAF
 
4163 posts since 3 Jul, 2012

Postby V0RT3X; Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:36 pm

Pics??
Having the best tools and technical knowledge isn't gonna do much for you if you don't understand how to make good music.
Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
 
6365 posts since 6 Sep, 2008

Postby Mushy Mushy; Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:37 pm

V0RT3X wrote:Pics??
Really? Of what?
The compressor, the desired result or the actual result?
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
User avatar
V0RT3X
KVRAF
 
4163 posts since 3 Jul, 2012

Postby V0RT3X; Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:38 pm

Mushy Mushy wrote:
V0RT3X wrote:Pics??
Really? Of what?
The compressor, the desired result or the actual result?


I wanted to see the waveform that looks like a fish, thats kind of interesting!
Having the best tools and technical knowledge isn't gonna do much for you if you don't understand how to make good music.
Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
 
6365 posts since 6 Sep, 2008

Postby Mushy Mushy; Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:42 pm

V0RT3X wrote:
Mushy Mushy wrote:
V0RT3X wrote:Pics??
Really? Of what?
The compressor, the desired result or the actual result?


I wanted to see the waveform that looks like a fish, thats kind of interesting!
Well funnily enough I can't find any now.
Have seen them heaps in the past though.

You get the initial transient for dynamics and a deep body and thump. But it's not boomy because of the dip which I refer to as the neck.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
Eauson
KVRist
 
152 posts since 8 Jan, 2013, from morf

Postby Eauson; Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:43 pm

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
 
6365 posts since 6 Sep, 2008

Postby Mushy Mushy; Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:44 pm

Eauson wrote:http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9r-wf45xteNLqGi57R9xTyjeuTuMhhMOMtiaX7UsKfk1F-cOJsg
LOL. Did you draw that?
It's pretty much bang on TBH.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
Eauson
KVRist
 
152 posts since 8 Jan, 2013, from morf

Postby Eauson; Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:49 pm

Mushy Mushy wrote:
Eauson wrote:http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9r-wf45xteNLqGi57R9xTyjeuTuMhhMOMtiaX7UsKfk1F-cOJsg
LOL. Did you draw that?
It's pretty much bang on TBH.

Nah, twas bored so thought it be interesting to see images you described :D

Am now gonna see if I can play around in synthesis and see what animals I can make :-)
TIMT
KVRist
 
426 posts since 7 Mar, 2009, from MerseySide/Stockholm

Postby TIMT; Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:17 am

The "fish" dip at the beginning of the waveform before it goes into the body has naff all to do with compression.it's heavy handed eq on the low mids or they've layered something (another short kick sample perhaps) in the 100-300hz area that is out of phase to achieve such a dip


TIMT
It's all about the chef not about the kitchen
stillshaded
KVRist
 
305 posts since 18 Apr, 2011

Postby stillshaded; Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:15 am

You've got the threshold too low. Think about it, if you are setting the threshold "very low" then you are going to be compressing all the time.. and if you're compressing all the time at a "very high ratio" it's going to be lowering all the audio by a lot! At this point the release won't make much of a difference because it's always compressing whenever there's audio being sent through the compressor, so the compressors only "letting go" once there's no audio passing through, and you won't be hearing the release doing in "sucking"..

so you need to raise the threshold a lot.. and lower the ratio (as some one said earlier 4:1 is a good starting point. Keep an eye on how many db's your compressing 6 db's, for instance, is more than you think!

good luck!
G.hostLA
KVRist
 
120 posts since 16 Feb, 2012

Postby G.hostLA; Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:06 pm

you have got to set threshold above the bass/tail of the kick. the transient can and should cross the threshold to achieve what you're looking for.
kritikon
KVRAF
 
5076 posts since 23 May, 2002, from Tutukaka, New Zealand

Postby kritikon; Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:40 pm

Eauson wrote:Sound more like limiting than fishing :D


Exactly. That's all a limiter is - a comp with a high ratio.

stillshaded wrote:You've got the threshold too low. Think about it, if you are setting the threshold "very low" then you are going to be compressing all the time.. and if you're compressing all the time at a "very high ratio" it's going to be lowering all the audio by a lot! At this point the release won't make much of a difference because it's always compressing whenever there's audio being sent through the compressor, so the compressors only "letting go" once there's no audio passing through, and you won't be hearing the release doing in "sucking"..

so you need to raise the threshold a lot.. and lower the ratio (as some one said earlier 4:1 is a good starting point. Keep an eye on how many db's your compressing 6 db's, for instance, is more than you think!


Even more exactlier.

Those kind of settings on a kick is going to probably make it less aggressive - compress anything too much and it'll sound like a splat rather than a thump. It's a rare instrument that you want a very low threshold on. It's not a bad idea to start with the threshold just at the point the red light/meter starts to flicker and then pull it down according to taste. Can think of very few channel instances where I'd want to be more than 5 or 6 dB below the absolute threshold - usually way less than that. Compressing mixes is entirely different - there is certainly a case for very low thresholds there...
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