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Are we seeing the decline of the plug-in industry?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

KVRAF
 
1537 posts since 19 Apr, 2003, from Copenhagen, Denmark
 

Postby olepro; Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:40 am

johnnyvn wrote:Current deep discounts on Lexicon. Current deep discounts on Waves software. Ongoing sales by a wide variety of software manufacturers.

Are Kracks killing the industry?

Are the software developers trying to fight piracy with lower (and lower) prices?

Anyone have thoughts about what's happening out there?


There's just too many around the plugin table
___The Jepptunes___
"Accept All the Good"

Sound design for SQ8L and Alchemy
KVRAF
 
3637 posts since 12 May, 2008

Postby Echoes in the Attic; Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:49 am

Piracy is dead now thanks to Tone2's $1000 reward for turning them in. :lol:

But seriously I think lower prices aren't a sign of dying. I think low prices are healthy. Look at iphone/ipad app sales of synths and audio apps. Developers are making more from $5 apps than their plug-ins. I think it's because people will without hesitation buy something, even just to try it, when it's the price of a sandwich.
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit. Once I have something clever, I will certainly fill it in.
Banned

Postby Delfinoverde; Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:03 am

"Are we seeing the decline of the plug-in industry?"

No, i don't think so. The Plug-Ins will get better and better (hopefully less expensive). At the same time developers encounter more and more difficulties because there are so many different plug-in formats! It would be easier & better to have only 3 main formats such as AU, VST + RTAS.

I won't judge over users of cracked Software, nor over persons who crack. Sure is that cracks have an impact to the sales of developers. It's like in the music business: When nobody buys CD's or Music anymore and does download for "free", the musicians behind their products will have less income. Less income = less motivation = less confidence. But musicians will not stop making music, unless they loose their enthusiasm! :wink:
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KVRian
 
753 posts since 19 Mar, 2011

Postby tomtoo; Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:25 am

Piracy ? Piracy was the problem of the c64 sid ?
Imagination !+ Cooperation !
Thats the future.

Diversity is great , but also confusing.

Give a line(workflow) how to do thinks.

Its not the plugins, its the daws that dont do there job.






:roll:
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KVRAF
 
2806 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Postby fluffy_little_something; Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:46 am

The problem with software is that it behaves differently on the market than hardware. If someone offered a brand new car for 100 dollars or even for free, he would find himself in court because of dumping accusations. With software that is not the case. Anyone with the required skills and motivation can produce software, and offer it at any price they want or even for free.

I have bought a couple of cheaper plugins myself and when the product is good (why else would I want it?) I already feel like a thief when paying a very low asking price.

Hacking sucks. I am no software maker, but still, I find it worrisome that there are so many people out there offering stolen goods so to speak, as if it were the most natural thing in the world to do. With intangible stuff people seem to have a different understanding of ethics.

One other problem with software is that it is hard for developers to determine a reasonable price (many factors play a role, like size and location of the company). Since someone mentioned Tone2, I like their Saurus, but 100 euros is just too much I think, especially since they sell their sound sets for it separately. Then again, if you are located in Munich or London you probably have much higher costs than if you were developing your stuff in, say, a small town in the US or France. Still, plugins are a completely global market, so prices should depend mostly on the quality of the product alone, not where it comes from.
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KVRian
 
1480 posts since 15 Nov, 2006, from Hell

Postby Burillo; Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:23 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:Hacking sucks.

probably OT, but no, it doesn't. it's "cracking" you're referring to, not hacking. hacking is what brought us computers in the first place.
From Russia with love
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KVRAF
 
2806 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Postby fluffy_little_something; Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:36 am

Burillo wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:Hacking sucks.

probably OT, but no, it doesn't. it's "cracking" you're referring to, not hacking. hacking is what brought us computers in the first place.


Yes, cracking, still, both suck, actually...
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KVRAF
 
7770 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany
  

Postby Ingonator; Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:13 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:Since someone mentioned Tone2, I like their Saurus, but 100 euros is just too much I think, especially since they sell their sound sets for it separately.


IMO Saurus with 99 Euros (incl. VAT) is not too expensive and why should they not offer soundsets for it? It already includes more than 500 factory sounds so do you expect to offer all others for free? BTW the "Analog" soundset includes 213 patches which is more than many other soundsets for other synths.

Tone2 is also one of the developers who pays the sound designers, at least those who got an official "professional" status at them. I entered that status after doing patches for the "Vintage" soundset. I got paid for all of my work for the Rayblaster factory sounds and the first official soundset (got paid for that soundset before it was officially released...).

They also develop for multiple platforms (Windows, Mac, Mac AU, 32-bit, 64-bit) and try to test multiple host programs (e.g. Cubase, Live, etc.) which uses development time.


Ingo
Waldorf Beta Forum Manager
"Atmospheric Transients" for PPG Wave 3.V
"Analog vs Digital" for Blofeld
Win 7 64-bit / Live 9 / Reaper / Studio One 2.6 / Blofeld / Pulse 2 /Waldorf + Tone 2 plugins + others
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KVRAF
 
2806 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Postby fluffy_little_something; Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:57 am

Well, I just think it is a bit expensive these days for a standard VA synth that doesn't really offer anything special, neither in terms of features, nor in terms of sound.

As I said, I like Saurus, especially its pleasant user interface and its inherent sound quality, I don't have anything against Tone2 :) But I get a similar sound quality out of plugins that cost only 10 bucks, while I don't need such an extensive matrix anyway. If I were rich and money did not matter, I would buy Saurus immediately :lol:

I have heard the included presets, many of them are useless as far as I am concerned. Like with so many synths. They should include 128 no-nonsense quality bread-and-butter sounds from hardware synths it tries to replace instead of all those sound gimmicks nobody uses anyway.
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KVRAF
 
7770 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany
  

Postby Ingonator; Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:12 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:I have heard the included presets, many of them are useless as far as I am concerned. Like with so many synths. They should include 128 no-nonsense quality bread-and-butter sounds from hardware synths it tries to replace instead of all those sound gimmicks nobody uses anyway.


Saurus is not modeled on a specific synth so which hardware do you talk about?

All together with the factory sounds, soundsets and my own patches (which are a lot more than those published...) i got around 1200+ patches for Saurus and there are more AFAIK.

Besides the soundsets at the Tone2 website there is also one from Himalaya:
http://www.electric-himalaya.com/tone2_ ... _bank.html

There are a lot of "bread & butter" sounds in the factory sounds and the soundsets, especially in the "Vintage" soundset and that from Himalaya. More "official" soundsets will come in the future.


Ingo
Waldorf Beta Forum Manager
"Atmospheric Transients" for PPG Wave 3.V
"Analog vs Digital" for Blofeld
Win 7 64-bit / Live 9 / Reaper / Studio One 2.6 / Blofeld / Pulse 2 /Waldorf + Tone 2 plugins + others
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KVRAF
 
2806 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Postby fluffy_little_something; Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:39 am

I was referring to the demo version and its presets. I don't know your patches, maybe they are better :)

Judging from its entire architecture it comes across as a VA synth, thus it should offer and focus on classic analog synth sounds. I know it can sound analog, but it is not really reflected by the included presets. That is probably why they offer an analog sound set as an add-on if I remember correctly.

I wonder if they are selling a lot of licenses of that synth...
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KVRAF
 
7770 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany
  

Postby Ingonator; Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:51 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:
I wonder if they are selling a lot of licenses of that synth...


No bigger problems AFAIK and why should they offer more soundsets (next one is in preparation BTW...) if it does sell bad.

I always thought it is dangerous judging a synth only based on the factory presets. Of course this is the only way if you got no clue about programming your own sounds.
Personally i decided to buy it after less than one hour where i was mostly doing my own sounds. One of the few synths i loved from the first minute on.

The synth was so much inspiring that it did not take very long to create the patches that i then submitted to be included with the Vintage soundset.

Opposing to e.g. Diva which i already sold i still son't get tired of Saurus.

With the new 1.1 update it seems to sound even better and now you could also load and save the Arpeggiator settings into a file. Almost all comparable Arp files in Rayblaster are compatible and could be loaded into Saurus.


Ingo
Waldorf Beta Forum Manager
"Atmospheric Transients" for PPG Wave 3.V
"Analog vs Digital" for Blofeld
Win 7 64-bit / Live 9 / Reaper / Studio One 2.6 / Blofeld / Pulse 2 /Waldorf + Tone 2 plugins + others
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KVRAF
 
2806 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Postby fluffy_little_something; Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:07 am

I do have a clue of how to program my own patches. I did program my own patches with the demo version (although it was not easy if I remember correctly, they had nasty demo restrictions). That is why I said that it can sound analog and that I do like its sound quality. I don't even use other people's presets in my own music, but I tried them anyway out of curiosity - and did not like most of them...

Anyway, this is not a Saurus thread, I mentioned it only as an example of a synth that I find overpriced.
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KVRAF
 
7770 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany
  

Postby Ingonator; Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:10 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:
Anyway, this is not a Saurus thread, I mentioned it only as an example of a synth that I find overpriced.

I did not plan to discuss it into detail too but i tried to explain why i don't think it's overpriced. Most of that was mentioned in my first reply to your post.


Ingo
Waldorf Beta Forum Manager
"Atmospheric Transients" for PPG Wave 3.V
"Analog vs Digital" for Blofeld
Win 7 64-bit / Live 9 / Reaper / Studio One 2.6 / Blofeld / Pulse 2 /Waldorf + Tone 2 plugins + others
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KVRAF
 
8848 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:21 am

It's time for new plugin combinations to refresh the market. For example: DIVA + SAURUS = DIVASAURUS :hihi:
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