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Do you use construction kits?

Sampler and Sampling discussion (techniques, tips and tricks, etc.)

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

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vurt
addled muppet weed
 
33862 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass

Postby vurt; Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:35 pm

Jbravo wrote:it depends if you want to be an artist or paint-by-numbers and make some cash (imho)


see, to me this is more like collage than paint by numbers.
paint by numbers would be following theory to the letter and never deviating outside the lines
imhooc.
User avatar
Jbravo
KVRian
 
1192 posts since 19 May, 2002, from Cambridge, UK

Postby Jbravo; Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:48 pm

vurt wrote:
Jbravo wrote:it depends if you want to be an artist or paint-by-numbers and make some cash (imho)


see, to me this is more like collage than paint by numbers.
paint by numbers would be following theory to the letter and never deviating outside the lines
imhooc.


yeah, I take your point. When it comes to commercial dance music there are construction kits for *everything*, even melodies. All you have to do is choose a bunch and string them together, just like ejay and those playstation games. The result sounds good but not being a commercial producer myself I would find no satisfaction in doing that whatsoever. 95% of all the creative work is already prepared for you.
OzWozEre
KVRist
 
353 posts since 5 Nov, 2012

Postby OzWozEre; Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:58 pm

tropicalontour wrote:So nobody much uses construction kits, eh? And yet that's all the sample companies spam you with, as if they were popular, profitable sellers, or something. Imagine that! :D

+1 Finally someone has hit the nail on the head.
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vurt
addled muppet weed
 
33862 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass

Postby vurt; Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:04 pm

the people ive known who use such things generally speaking use only the drums and occassionally a bassline. with a few edits here and there for effect, then they will add any tuned stuff using the same plugins as the rest of us.
but if the company sold you just the drums and not all the filler, youre looking at 10/15 quid as oppose to 39.99
Xenobt
KVRian
 
924 posts since 13 May, 2010, from Atlanta, GA

Postby Xenobt; Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:15 pm

Yeah, this argument comes up between a classically trained singer friend who thinks loop based composing is the worst thing to happen to music in 500 years, and myself, who can clearly see the artistry in finding and repurposing all that stuff, making it mesh AND make you wanna shake various body parts!

It IS an art form, and very musical. But the debate rages on as to whether that makes you a musician, dj or producer. Some producers have farm teams making beats that they take full credit for, and it's treated as work for hire. Is that really any different?

And Sauli is on to something too. Most of the stuff I hear has pretty complete processing on everything, so using one shots saves time making heavily "produced" sounds from scratch. And I often use the handclaps, shaker, tambourine or cheesy organ drum box loops to do percussion sweetening, and it sounds great, and right FAST.

Speaking of loops and construction kits, all the Sampletank Retanks are on sale at eSoundz for $10! Some are full kits, others are drum/percussion loops only, but they'll all run in Sampletank free, so not much to gamble really!

Try it, you'll like it! :lol:

KVR/eSoundz: Xenobt
dblock
KVRAF
 
1767 posts since 24 Feb, 2005

Postby dblock; Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:18 pm

Tricky-Loops wrote:Someway, I don't like them - though there are tons of them available on the Interwebz. I always think if I only would use some loops from construction kits for my songs, everyone could think "I've known it before, Tricky Loops isn't able to compose his own loops." And so I try to avoid them wherever it's possible...

What do YOU think about construction kits? Do you use loops from them? And if you do, how do you do it? Do you create something new with them?

Have a few,hate em all. Won't use them. I know I'm not the greatest composer but I can do better than that.
User avatar
Tricky-Loops
KVRAF
 
8730 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:53 am

Xenobt wrote:It IS an art form, and very musical. But the debate rages on as to whether that makes you a musician, dj or producer. Some producers have farm teams making beats that they take full credit for, and it's treated as work for hire. Is that really any different?

And Sauli is on to something too. Most of the stuff I hear has pretty complete processing on everything, so using one shots saves time making heavily "produced" sounds from scratch. And I often use the handclaps, shaker, tambourine or cheesy organ drum box loops to do percussion sweetening, and it sounds great, and right FAST.KVR/eSoundz: Xenobt
Making collages from loads of magazines is an art form, too. But it doesn't make you a producer of all the magazines. But if you create a combination of collages and painting, you're a painter, and if you combine pre-made loops and DIY made loops, you're a musician.:wink:

Personally, I rather like dry (= unprocessed) samples. I have enough effect and dynamic processing plugins to process the samples myself to my taste. If the samples are too much processed, I cannot use them in certain contexts. I prefer processed samples only if they're so skilfully processed that I couldn't do it myself.
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mellotronaut
KVRAF
 
9979 posts since 2 Jan, 2005, from somewhere in the woods

Postby mellotronaut; Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:03 am

Tricky-Loops wrote:Someway, I don't like them - though there are tons of them available on the Interwebz. I always think if I only would use some loops from construction kits for my songs, everyone could think "I've known it before, Tricky Loops isn't able to compose his own loops." And so I try to avoid them wherever it's possible...

at least you'd need a new alias: 'Quickie Loops'
Tricky-Loops wrote:What do YOU think about construction kits? Do you use loops from them? And if you do, how do you do it? Do you create something new with them?


i use everything, i like to mangle, if it's legally available and some illegal baby and Hitler noises.
if there is some nice loopie in a CM or FM construction kit, i'll be happy to beat the shit out of it.

:lol:
"It dreamed itself along"
User avatar
Tricky-Loops
KVRAF
 
8730 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:25 am

mellotronaut wrote:i use everything, i like to mangle, if it's legally available and some illegal baby and Hitler noises.
if there is some nice loopie in a CM or FM construction kit, i'll be happy to beat the shit out of it.
ILLEGAL baby noises?? Who do you keep caught in your recording studio?:shock:

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KevWestBeats
KVRian
 
652 posts since 27 Dec, 2011, from Seattle,WA, USA

Postby KevWestBeats; Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:46 am

Construction kits are just tools I see nothing wrong with using them. Its all about creativity at the end of the day not ego. Then again I am also a hip hop producer all of my favs that I look up to chop up pieces of old songs and rearrange them and don't think much about people who use synths and keyboards unless its on a record they choose to sample.
User avatar
mellotronaut
KVRAF
 
9979 posts since 2 Jan, 2005, from somewhere in the woods

Postby mellotronaut; Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:14 am

Tricky-Loops wrote:
mellotronaut wrote:i use everything, i like to mangle, if it's legally available and some illegal baby and Hitler noises.
if there is some nice loopie in a CM or FM construction kit, i'll be happy to beat the shit out of it.
ILLEGAL baby noises?? Who do you keep caught in your recording studio?:shock:

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"It dreamed itself along"
SampleScience
KVRAF
 
2469 posts since 31 Oct, 2004, from Mtl, Canada

Postby SampleScience; Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:42 pm

KevWestBeats wrote:Construction kits are just tools I see nothing wrong with using them. Its all about creativity at the end of the day not ego.


Well said!
bigfishaudio
KVRer
 
22 posts since 23 Oct, 2007

Postby bigfishaudio; Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:33 pm

We are, with much trepidation, entering into this conversation as this seems like a rowdy bunch. :-o

First, let me start off by saying a lot of people buy construction kit libraries, otherwise we wouldn't keep making them.:)
We do create a lot of libraries that are not in construction kit format as well though.

We do know though that some composers/songwriters/musicians avoid using them for fear of sounding like other people or concern that they won't be creating there own music while using loops which is why we came up with our KLI Series. For people who own the full version of either kontakt 4 or 5 we want you to know about this series of products.

Essentially what it is are our loops in kontakt format with a custom interface that helps you completely rearrange any loop on the fly quite easily, as well as a number of other features to help you create quick custom parts out of any loop. This is roughly like using a loop in either stylus rmx or dr. rex but it has a graphical representation and can be easily edited right in the gui.

This may not be the solution to every person with a hesitancy to use loops but we thought it might be of interest to some of you.

To check out some more details and to see exactly how it works here are a couple videos to show you more about this series of products. Have a good one everybody!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFYSx82Y ... EY_v7jyVPw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwp-egxW ... EY_v7jyVPw


Sincerely, The Big Fish Audio Team
http://bigfishaudio.com
schnapsglas
KVRian
 
996 posts since 14 Jun, 2012, from Toronto, Canada

Postby schnapsglas; Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:44 pm

Sorry, but at the risk of sounding sarcastic while half-trying to be sarcastic, what are these construction kits you speak of? :shrug:
It's all about the wavelets. I dream of the perfect additive synthesis.
You can hire me if you are in Toronto! Contact for details.
User avatar
Tricky-Loops
KVRAF
 
8730 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:58 pm

bigfishaudio wrote:We are, with much trepidation, entering into this conversation as this seems like a rowdy bunch. :-o

First, let me start off by saying a lot of people buy construction kit libraries, otherwise we wouldn't keep making them.:)
Sincerely, The Big Fish Audio Team
Is this Big Fish Construction Kit from you? :lol:

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