Need some advice on acoustic/electric guitars

[cryophonik]

Hey guitarists, I'm looking for some advice on getting a better guitar tone, and probably buying a new guitar. I've currently got an Ibanez AEG20E acoustic/electric that I like to keep around the studio. I'm a bassist/keyboardist who also happens to be a complete hack on guitar, but I work with several singers/songwriters who do a lot of their songwriting on guitar, so I like to have a guitar around for recording scratch tracks, layering into some songs, etc. The problem, though, is that this Ibanez sounds pretty horrid when recording - it's just brittle and harsh sounding. I've tried all sorts of combinations of mic'ing it with several different mics (AKG C414, GrooveTubes G66, Rode, etc), recording it direct, different preamps, changing the strings, etc. and just can't seem to get a usable tone out of it.

I want something that sounds warmer, fuller, and mellower, particularly in the mids/highs. So, I'm considering buying a new acoustic/electric in the $400-700 range. I've checked out a few Breedloves and Takamines in that price range and they seem decent, but I'm looking for suggestions for specific guitars to check out. Again, this will be primarily for recording, so I'm mostly interested in tone and playability (e.g., don't care too much about fancy inlays, etc.). Also, most of the singers that will use it when they come to my studio are females, so I'm thinking something that isn't too beefy. And, finally, I should mention that it may be used occasionally for live gigs, so something with decent electronics is a big plus.

[Hink]

have you looked at Seagulls? Great guitars at a great price

[Wormhelmet]

Have you considered dedicated acoustic and electric guitars? What type of pickup is in the current guitar and can it be upgraded?

[jcrisman]

Have you tried different EQs and EQ settings? Or possibly even a touch of saturation?

[Wormhelmet]

Have you tried different EQs and EQ settings? Or possibly even a touch of saturation?

This first!

Then if you still aren't satisfied, try a nice clip in the sound hole pickup on one of those seagull's as was suggested. I've never been a big fan of acoustic/electrics until you start getting in the $1000 plus range. Would rather have a $500 dreadnought and $500 electric or replace with pickups of my choice on lower cost guitar. Just my own experience and preference.

That said, the Ibanez you linked to shouldn't be sounding horrible. It's not a bad guitar.

[Mister Natural]

sorry Cryo, but that's a pretty weak guitar for what it is

for acoustic work - which is what I think I read you saying that you are looking for, recco you test out either Yamaha or Alvarez within whatever price-range you're wanting to hit - really can't go wrong

examples :
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/ ... ric-guitar

or

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/ ... way-guitar

the female of the species will prefer the smaller-bodied 000 or concert to the traditional dreadnaught or jumbo size

The real trick(after a proper professional set-up of the instrument) is the recording technique used. Most success is reported with a mic pointed at the 12th fret(NOT the soundhole) at about 12" away from the instrument. I've also found it helpful to use a pop-filter pointing at my face to reduce the sound of my breathing :=)

regarding the "plugged-in" tone of these instrument, it's essential to have a quality preamp/DI for them to approximate the "miced-up" tone. This model comes highly recommended :
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessor ... coustic-di

peace

[cryophonik]

Wow, thanks for all the replies, guys!

have you looked at Seagulls? Great guitars at a great price

I remember looking at these years ago when I first bought my Ibanez. I'll definitely check out the new models in my price range - thanks Hink!

Have you considered dedicated acoustic and electric guitars? What type of pickup is in the current guitar and can it be upgraded?

Maybe I need to clarify - I'm actually only interested in a hollow-body acoustic guitar, but with a built-in pickup/preamp - not an electric guitar. Sorry for the confusion.

Have you tried different EQs and EQ settings? Or possibly even a touch of saturation?

Oh yeah - I've EQ'ed it six ways from Sunday and can't get rid of the harshness. It seems to have no natural mids, just this annoying scooped-mid tone with very harsh highs and any attempts to boost the mids with the onboard or other plugin brings out this nasty nasal tone. Saturation is a very good suggestion, although, I'm pretty much convinced that I just need to quit trying to fix a bad tone and just start with a better source (i.e., better guitar) instead.

sorry Cryo, but that's a pretty weak guitar for what it is for acoustic work - which is what I think I read you saying that you are looking for,

Thanks, now you tell me - where were you when I bought this thing?!

recco you test out either Yamaha or Alvarez within whatever price-range you're wanting to hit - really can't go wrong

examples :
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/ ... ric-guitar

or

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/ ... way-guitar

the female of the species will prefer the smaller-bodied 000 or concert to the traditional dreadnaught or jumbo size

Thanks - will definitely check those ones out!

The real trick(after a proper professional set-up of the instrument) is the recording technique used. Most success is reported with a mic pointed at the 12th fret(NOT the soundhole) at about 12" away from the instrument.

Yup, that's the way I usually record it. Although, I also will record the direct line out at the same time and blend the two, which does help, but it's still not that great.

regarding the "plugged-in" tone of these instrument, it's essential to have a quality preamp/DI for them to approximate the "miced-up" tone. This model comes highly recommended :
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessor ... coustic-di

peace

Thanks - I'll definitely check that out as well. If my local stores have it, maybe I'll just buy it and try it with my Ibanez before buying something else. Maybe even bring it along when test-driving other guitars.

[Space Coyote]

I agree that the Seagull's are great guitars. They make a nice Mini-Jumbo body size. As far as the plugged-in sound I've never been a huge fan of the bridge/piezo sound and prefer using a mag soundhole pup. The LR Baggs M1 has served me well.

[tapper mike]

segull's are too dark, not warm.

Honestly... I'd get a godin freeway classic. Then run it through something like a pandora mini

Listen to it clean... wait a few seconds...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlPyYd9kuTQ

[cryophonik]

OK, I checked out a bunch of guitars this evening and I think my mind is made up: Taylor 214ce. It's a bit above my stated budget, but Guitar Center currently has a great deal on it and it plays/sounds heads above anything else that I tried in the $400-800 range. I'm gonna sleep on it, and check out a few more tomorrow, but that guitar is pretty much perfect for my needs and worth the extra $$$ IMO. Anybody have any experience or opinions on this guitar?

[tapper mike]

Taylors are great guitars. I think you'll enjoy it.

[cryophonik]

regarding the "plugged-in" tone of these instrument, it's essential to have a quality preamp/DI for them to approximate the "miced-up" tone. This model comes highly recommended :
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessor ... coustic-di

I spent a few hours in GC again yesterday trying out guitars with and without the LR Baggs unit and it really extended the tonal palette of every guitar that I plugged into it. I even ran a few basses through it and it sounded great, so, I ended up buying one. I figure that, whichever guitar I end up going with, this DI/pre will be very handy. I haven't had a chance to try it out with my own Ibanez yet, but I used it with a similar (newer) model in the store and it did improve the sound, but the better guitars still sounded much better (not to mention that they played better).

Anyway, I thought I was set on the Taylor, but after spending more time with other guitars, reading reviews/specs, listening to online demos, etc., I've found myself pretty enamored with the Martin GPCPA4. It's waaaayyyy more money than I was planning on spending, so I'll probably be auctioning off some non-vital organs to fund it - watch eBay, if interested.

[robogone]

You might also want to look at some of the mid to high range Yamahas - I kind of think of them in the middle of the dark/bright range of sounds, so you shouldn't have too many complaints about one being to far to either extreme.

[CapnLockheed]

Another cheap way to get a warmer fuller sound with ANY acoustic is to use
a magnetic sound hole pickup....like this one:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Dean-Markle ... =100026558

Built in under saddle piezo pickups tend to be very bright and brittle sounding....by combining them with a magnetic pickup you can get a very
full range of tone....I would also suggest trying to record with a decent
condenser mic.

[robogone]

Or there's a DI box that Tech 21 makes that helps out a lot when you are plugged in with an acoustic-electric.