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Are we seeing the decline of the plug-in industry?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

Nokenoku
KVRAF
 
1665 posts since 10 Feb, 2008, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Nokenoku; Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:03 am

Urs wrote:That's good. Everyone who uses a "crack" of our stuff and invests dozens of hours in a project or two is a sure sale once the "crack" decides not to be one.

We do analytics. Every single day we get visitors from a link in an "expired demo" who then buy ;-)
If I ever actually release a plugin, you have to tell me your secret. :D
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DuX
KVRAF
 
3217 posts since 14 Mar, 2002, from Underworld

Postby DuX; Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:58 am

tomtoo wrote:Piracy ? Piracy was the problem of the c64 sid ?
Imagination !+ Cooperation !
Thats the future.

Diversity is great , but also confusing.

Give a line(workflow) how to do thinks.

Its not the plugins, its the daws that dont do there job. :roll:

:tu:
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
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DuX
KVRAF
 
3217 posts since 14 Mar, 2002, from Underworld

Postby DuX; Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:00 am

Delfinoverde wrote:It would be easier & better to have only 3 main formats such as AU, VST + RTAS.

:tu: :tu: :tu:
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
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Richard_Synapse
KVRian
 
526 posts since 19 Dec, 2010

Postby Richard_Synapse; Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:36 am

robotmonkey wrote:
Richard_Synapse wrote:Yep. And apart from half-working cracks or trojan-infected downloads, new versions of a plugin may stop working or refuse to load patches saved with a cracked version. For users serious about making music it's definitely not a good idea to bother with cracks.

Richard


I must be blunt here - the problems with cracked software are obviously overstated. If cracks would be so bad like devs warn, then I'm sure people would not use them. Actually, this is the main problem: cracks actually add value to customer, because you do not have to deal with stupid CP/DRM measures. I know a ton of cases where CP has stopped legal software dead (even just now noticed couple of people here complaining), but there hardly seem to be any complaints about cracks.


Hm we get such complaints regularly. May depend on the plugin, some are protected better than others.

robotmonkey wrote:What I'm arguing here is for CP measures that is as easy and comfortable to users as cracks. This always comes up in academic studies: people prefer comfort of using cracks to draconian drm measures. It's the same with all kinds of media - the most comfortable way of acquiring and using something tends to win out. :shrug:


We use serials, it doesn't get any easier than that. Even just running a keygen is more work, so there's really no excuse. ;)

Richard
Synapse Audio Software - www.synapse-audio.com
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DuX
KVRAF
 
3217 posts since 14 Mar, 2002, from Underworld

Postby DuX; Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:21 am

Richard_Synapse wrote:We use serials, it doesn't get any easier than that. Even just running a keygen is more work, so there's really no excuse. ;)

:tu: That's commendable. When one buys your software, he can carry easily install and register it, without a fuss, even 200 hundred years from now if need be. How do you know some customers aren't vampires, for instance? And when everything changes and VSTs are gone, and the technology completely changes, they could still use it if they want. Just saying... :hihi:
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
Nokenoku
KVRAF
 
1665 posts since 10 Feb, 2008, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Nokenoku; Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:34 am

Richard_Synapse wrote:
robotmonkey wrote:What I'm arguing here is for CP measures that is as easy and comfortable to users as cracks. This always comes up in academic studies: people prefer comfort of using cracks to draconian drm measures. It's the same with all kinds of media - the most comfortable way of acquiring and using something tends to win out. :shrug:


We use serials, it doesn't get any easier than that. Even just running a keygen is more work, so there's really no excuse. ;)
I don't know, how it is with your plugins, but one thing really bugging me are plugins, which are not "portable".

Some are, some are not ... some become by using a crack.
I mean, if you reinstall your system, the plugin should still work and just ask for re-authorization.

I'm not saying, this is justifying to use a crack, but it actually is a case, where cracked plugins sometimes are more convenient than the original versions.
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DuX
KVRAF
 
3217 posts since 14 Mar, 2002, from Underworld

Postby DuX; Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:20 pm

Along that line, I've got a few clients that find it more convenient to just use a cracked version instead of installing the legal one... :shrug: I can't blame them because for example I once spent hours just trying to authorise a few of IK plugins he bought. We just decided... well now you know what we decided. It's not funny at all. Authorisations can be such a pain in the arse it's incredible. And this particular client owns a pile of plugins. He and I cannot afford to lose a *few days* just on authorising plugins when it comes to reinstalling the OS. We both agreed it feels very awkward since he bought them to be put through all that trouble so he would be able to use them. It's really sad. :( If the authorisations were easier we could finish it in a few hours.

And I shouldn't complain because I'm paid by the hour, btw. But I'm an empathetic person, and I have great clients, too. I'd do anything just to save them money even though it means I'd get less. It's just how I am.
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
pdxindy
KVRAF
 
8639 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:53 pm

Are authorizations really that much trouble? Does it really take more time to authorize than to search for a crack, download it, run a keygen or whatever for installation?

I guess I must be very lucky in the software I have choosen cause authorizations have generally been fast and easy for me.
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DuX
KVRAF
 
3217 posts since 14 Mar, 2002, from Underworld

Postby DuX; Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:01 pm

pdxindy wrote:Are authorizations really that much trouble? Does it really take more time to authorize than to search for a crack, download it, run a keygen or whatever for installation?

I guess I must be very lucky in the software I have choosen cause authorizations have generally been fast and easy for me.


It depends. But more or less - yes. Imagine having a client with a 100 plugins that require A/R authorisation like mine has and it all just becomes insane. It feels like almost he was punished for using legal software, really. :( And me with him. It just takes ages to make the DAW work with all the plugins that he legally purchased. Now if you've got like just a few plugins that require A/R authorisation it might not seem like such a hassle. You can contact the manufacturer by e-mail if needed etc. But if you own like 10 bundles of software that requires A/R then the situation looks a bit different. [Christ on a cross comes to mind even though I'm an atheist :D]

That's why I'm all for simple serial numbers. Or one kind of dongle. Using one dongle protection makes it so much easier, but we have a few now, and the drivers can bring down the OS if they clash. It just feels horrible . :(
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
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Tricky-Loops
KVRAF
 
8212 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:11 pm

DuX wrote:Imagine having a client with a 100 plugins that require A/R authorisation like mine has and it all just becomes insane. It feels like almost he was punished for using legal software, really. :(
Really, a client with 100 plugins bought AT THE SAME TIME?? I've never bought 100 plugins AT THE SAME TIME, I maybe buy some plugins a month, but not more. Where do you work? Are there loads of rich guys who buy everything? :hihi:
schnapsglas
KVRian
 
996 posts since 14 Jun, 2012, from Toronto, Canada

Postby schnapsglas; Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:18 pm

Tricky-Loops wrote:
DuX wrote:Imagine having a client with a 100 plugins that require A/R authorisation like mine has and it all just becomes insane. It feels like almost he was punished for using legal software, really. :(
Really, a client with 100 plugins bought AT THE SAME TIME?? I've never bought 100 plugins AT THE SAME TIME, I maybe buy some plugins a month, but not more. Where do you work? Are there loads of rich guys who buy everything? :hihi:


After a fresh system install, I believe that's what he's referring to.
It's all about the wavelets. I dream of the perfect additive synthesis.
You can hire me if you are in Toronto! Contact for details.
pdxindy
KVRAF
 
8639 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:30 pm

DuX wrote:
pdxindy wrote:Are authorizations really that much trouble? Does it really take more time to authorize than to search for a crack, download it, run a keygen or whatever for installation?

I guess I must be very lucky in the software I have choosen cause authorizations have generally been fast and easy for me.


It depends. But more or less - yes. Imagine having a client with a 100 plugins that require A/R authorisation like mine has and it all just becomes insane. It feels like almost he was punished for using legal software, really. :( And me with him. It just takes ages to make the DAW work with all the plugins that he legally purchased. Now if you've got like just a few plugins that require A/R authorisation it might not seem like such a hassle. You can contact the manufacturer by e-mail if needed etc. But if you own like 10 bundles of software that requires A/R then the situation looks a bit different. [Christ on a cross comes to mind even though I'm an atheist :D]

That's why I'm all for simple serial numbers. Or one kind of dongle. Using one dongle protection makes it so much easier, but we have a few now, and the drivers can bring down the OS if they clash. It just feels horrible . :(



I imagine finding, downloading and installing 100 cracks is just as much work. I don't even know where to look myself, whether a particular crack is reliable etc. It would be some work to sort all that out and keep up to date with it. Then what about bug fixes and updates? What about tech support, keeping track of which installations are legal and which aren't... and so on.

My observation of the admittedly small number of people I know who use cracks (or at least tell me) is that when all factors are considered, they spend more time on it than just being legal in the first place.
leggie
KVRian
 
818 posts since 27 Sep, 2009, from Bristol UK

Postby leggie; Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:32 pm

Decline no, maturing yes :)
Delfinoverde
Banned

Postby Delfinoverde; Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:39 pm

Thanks for the "thumbs up" Dux! :tu:

DuX wrote:
Imagine having a client with a 100 plugins that require A/R authorisation like mine has and it all just becomes insane. It feels like almost he was punished for using legal software, really.


Easy understandable! Software protection is a double-edged sword. It's hard to understand why some developers focus too much on it, spending a lot of time and money, which they could instead use for developing a BETTER product!! :tantrum: :scared:

To go back to Dux's argument: Imagine you have a total computer crash and maybe 700 Plug-Ins...all to set up again - a real time consuming and fuzzy work.
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Tricky-Loops
KVRAF
 
8212 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:43 pm

schnapsglas wrote:
Tricky-Loops wrote:
DuX wrote:Imagine having a client with a 100 plugins that require A/R authorisation like mine has and it all just becomes insane. It feels like almost he was punished for using legal software, really. :(
Really, a client with 100 plugins bought AT THE SAME TIME?? I've never bought 100 plugins AT THE SAME TIME, I maybe buy some plugins a month, but not more. Where do you work? Are there loads of rich guys who buy everything? :hihi:


After a fresh system install, I believe that's what he's referring to.
OMG...I'm feeling totally sick thinking of a computer crash - I should make a backup, immediately... :shock:
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