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Best osx midi sequencer for complex midi arranging?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion

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KVRist
 
102 posts since 21 Aug, 2011

Postby iainduncan; Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:40 am Best osx midi sequencer for complex midi arranging?

Hey folks, I'm finding myself moving to a more unix 'right tool for the job' philosophy in my production. I'm using Live for playing Live, Reaper for tracking/mixdown, and wonder what the best option is for a really powerful midi sequencer. As long as it can host plugins and bounce a track to audio, I don't care about the audio workstation capability, the stuff will get exported. But I'm really not happy with the midi editing on Live or Reaper, they are both primitive compared to even Cakewalk from 10 years ago. I suspect I want whatever people doing film scoring use as I have a "legit" music approach to writing and arranging, but I haven't tried anything outside of Reaper, and Ableton Live in the last few years. ( I was away from midi stuff for many years ).

Wish list:
- a real score
- ability to open multi tracks on multi line scores
- decent event list and piano roll
- easy editing of detailed CC values
- lots of options for how things get copied out
- some kind of macro functionality or programmability ( oh CAL how I miss thee! )
- flexible midi or audio bounce down and export
- flexibility with regards to editing a single clip or a whole line.

Suggestions welcomed!
Thanks
Iain
KVRian
 
592 posts since 3 Oct, 2011

Postby Nanakai; Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:45 pm

Looks like you want Logic.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
User avatar
KVRAF
 
2535 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from Raincoast of Grayland

Postby mandolarian; Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:49 pm

Or Digital Performer.
perception: the stuff reality is made of.
User avatar
KVRAF
 
3707 posts since 14 Jul, 2001, from Kent, UK
 

Postby topaz; Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:50 pm

Logic or pro tools.

Bizzarly none of them show note names in piano roll. (Other than a floating option)


iainduncan wrote:Hey folks, I'm finding myself moving to a more unix 'right tool for the job' philosophy in my production. I'm using Live for playing Live, Reaper for tracking/mixdown, and wonder what the best option is for a really powerful midi sequencer. As long as it can host plugins and bounce a track to audio, I don't care about the audio workstation capability, the stuff will get exported. But I'm really not happy with the midi editing on Live or Reaper, they are both primitive compared to even Cakewalk from 10 years ago. I suspect I want whatever people doing film scoring use as I have a "legit" music approach to writing and arranging, but I haven't tried anything outside of Reaper, and Ableton Live in the last few years. ( I was away from midi stuff for many years ).

Wish list:
- a real score
- ability to open multi tracks on multi line scores
- decent event list and piano roll
- easy editing of detailed CC values
- lots of options for how things get copied out
- some kind of macro functionality or programmability ( oh CAL how I miss thee! )
- flexible midi or audio bounce down and export
- flexibility with regards to editing a single clip or a whole line.

Suggestions welcomed!
Thanks
Iain
KVRian
 
819 posts since 15 Aug, 2003, from seattle

Postby machinesworking; Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:15 pm

It's Logic or Digital Performer.
I have both so...
The strengths and weaknesses are roughly:

Strength-
Logic- easy to learn piano roll, visually really clear, the Environment allows you to really get into how MIDI operates in a track, You can create your own MIDI effects to a degree. Great Event editor! For basic on the fly MIDI editing theres a good dedicated window.

DP- powerful quantize, powerful MIDI transforming features, good MIDI FX, multiple ways to view MIDI, multiple takes of any MIDI track event (or any mixing function really) can be stored in a single open song, MIDI can be cut and pasted into a dedicated Clippings window for use in the same song, other songs etc., Same applies to the open song, you can have multiple songs either full songs or just MIDI that you can drag into the open song. <-- this is MUCH smoother than the way other DAWs do this.



Weakness-
Logic- multi instrument support is weird, powerful MIDI transform editing is archaic advanced math to use, MIDI effects are a PITA to use compared to other DAWs, markers are next to useless, and in some cases the strict object oriented nature of the MIDI editing gets in the way, record enabling in tracks is funky.

DP- all MIDI is separate from the instrument whether VI or hardware, MIDI editing is not object oriented so markers are very useful/almost necessary, no 'mute notes' feature.


I've been using DP now for a couple years, although I acknowledge where Logic has some fine points, I think in many ways DP has the upper hand. My only real gripe is the lack of a "mute note" tool.
User avatar
fmr
KVRAF
 
2685 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:51 pm

I agrre basically with machineswork, and I would go with Digital Performer too. I prefer it's event list, and the piano roll is at least as good as Logic. The score is not so good, but is anough for a skecth, and for composing/arranging. But if you want a better score, and a very powerful MIDI, you may want to take a look at Cubase too.
Fernando (FMR)
KVRian
 
1411 posts since 2 Apr, 2006, from Studio City, California
 

Postby C-note; Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:37 pm

Cubase 7
KVRist
 
102 posts since 21 Aug, 2011

Postby iainduncan; Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:11 am

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I'm intrigued by DP, wish they had a demo or something. Guess I'll find somewhere I can actually try it.

iain
KVRian
 
592 posts since 3 Oct, 2011

Postby Nanakai; Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:27 pm

iainduncan wrote:Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I'm intrigued by DP, wish they had a demo or something. Guess I'll find somewhere I can actually try it.

iain


Actually, me too. Nice MIDI features, reasonable pricing and just takes a serial key. I may be switching my orchestral work to a new DAW...
KVRAF
 
8602 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds
 

Postby pdxindy; Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:56 pm

Nanakai wrote:
iainduncan wrote:Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I'm intrigued by DP, wish they had a demo or something. Guess I'll find somewhere I can actually try it.

iain


Actually, me too. Nice MIDI features, reasonable pricing and just takes a serial key. I may be switching my orchestral work to a new DAW...



just a serial huh?? I have thought about it for video... but figured it was dongled...
KVRian
 
592 posts since 3 Oct, 2011

Postby Nanakai; Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:17 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Nanakai wrote:
iainduncan wrote:Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I'm intrigued by DP, wish they had a demo or something. Guess I'll find somewhere I can actually try it.

iain


Actually, me too. Nice MIDI features, reasonable pricing and just takes a serial key. I may be switching my orchestral work to a new DAW...



just a serial huh?? I have thought about it for video... but figured it was dongled...


Me too, considering Mach 5. But everything that I've read has said it just takes a serial (nothing official from MOTU though). They also have a "competitive crossgrade", which means you get a $100 discount just for saying that you own another DAW. Pretty sweet deal.
KVRAF
 
18924 posts since 4 Sep, 2001, from Melbourne Australia

Postby TheoM; Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:51 pm

but no demo :(
"Just call me shitload, cause I own a shitload of plugins!"
KVRian
 
592 posts since 3 Oct, 2011

Postby Nanakai; Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:51 pm

TheoM wrote:but no demo :(


True. I'm going to have to find a GuitarCenter that has it set up to try out.
KVRist
 
64 posts since 20 Nov, 2004

Postby Suspended In Dusk; Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:07 am

machinesworking wrote:It's Logic or Digital Performer.
I
Weakness-
Logic- multi instrument support is weird, powerful MIDI transform editing is archaic advanced math to use, MIDI effects are a PITA to use compared to other DAWs, markers are next to useless, and in some cases the strict object oriented nature of the MIDI editing gets in the way, record enabling in tracks is funky.

DP- all MIDI is separate from the instrument whether VI or hardware, MIDI editing is not object oriented so markers are very useful/almost necessary, no 'mute notes' feature.


FWIW, I don't remember the last time I record-enabled a track in Logic - just select a track and press record and you're done. As for markers, they seem to be doing exactly what I expect them to do, but I'll admit I use them for visual reference and quick navigation.

Logic also allows you to have multiple projects open at once, but I find that the ability to access other songs and import data (project settings like markers, tempo map, signature changes, and also tracks and their settings, with or without their plug-ins and routing) directly via Logic's browser much more convenient.
KVRAF
 
18924 posts since 4 Sep, 2001, from Melbourne Australia

Postby TheoM; Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:31 am

i guess we are all so different. I love the markers in logic and there is also a event list for them.

Logic's event list overall is the strongest i have used and where i feel it even has an edge on cubase.

If DP's event list really is stronger than logic's i'm genuinely intrigued!
"Just call me shitload, cause I own a shitload of plugins!"

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