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Yamaha DX7II VSTi

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion

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beely
KVRist
 
271 posts since 6 Jul, 2013

Postby beely; Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:16 pm

Uncle E wrote:I'd say FM8 sounds about as different from a DX7 as a classical guitar sounds from a steel string acoustic guitar.


Interesting. I certainly didn't realise it was perceived, at least by some, as being that different.

The only real practical example I did (some time ago) was when I imported my own DX7II patches into FM7, which sounded essentially identical, and with a few extra tweaks I could take them to 150% better than the hardware. Along with some general playing the same patches on both, and was satisfied that FM7 could do a fine job for me (I don't really have any desire, other than some general interest, to stick to the old DX presets/patches anyway, give that I was never much of a DX7 or FM fan to begin with).

But, for interest (and not to nit-pick about silly personal preferences or argue minutiae) it would be nice to post up some decent comparisons audio examples, both of patches which sound the same and patches which show clear differences, if people have the ability and time to do so...
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Uncle E
KVRAF
 
6545 posts since 21 Nov, 2000, from Southern California

Postby Uncle E; Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:30 pm

beely wrote:But, for interest (and not to nit-pick about silly personal preferences or argue minutiae) it would be nice to post up some decent comparisons audio examples, both of patches which sound the same and patches which show clear differences, if people have the ability and time to do so...


Here's a Lately Bass sample library:

http://patcharena.com/downloads/redirec ... 017a3a8c81

Here's the original TX81Z sysex with the Lately Bass preset:

http://patcharena.com/downloads/files/TX81Z_Presets.zip
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beely
KVRist
 
271 posts since 6 Jul, 2013

Postby beely; Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:31 pm

Uncle E wrote:Here's a Lately Bass sample library:
Here's the original TX81Z sysex with the Lately Bass preset:


Eric, thanks for that. Very interesting.

Of course we don't know how that sample was taken, and there are only a few velocity layers, but there are clear and significant differences that aren't exactly difficult to hear between the two...
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Uncle E
KVRAF
 
6545 posts since 21 Nov, 2000, from Southern California

Postby Uncle E; Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:25 pm

beely wrote:Of course we don't know how that sample was taken but there are clear and significant differences that aren't exactly difficult to hear between the two...


I have a 4 different Lately Bass sample patches and you're correct that they do all sound different from one another. However, the difference between any of them and the Lately Bass sysex in FM8 is far greater.
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Teksonik
KVRAF
 
8742 posts since 15 Sep, 2001, from Las Vegas,USA

Postby Teksonik; Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:18 pm

Uncle E wrote:I'd say FM8 sounds about as different from a DX7 as a classical guitar sounds from a steel string acoustic guitar.


Yes if the DX is a $100 classical guitar and the FM8 a Martin D 28........... :hihi:

The problem for me is I can't see spending any time trying to emulate patches I never liked in the DX using FM8....... :shrug:

So I guess we will have to agree that there are sounds you can create in FM8 that a DX could never come close to making and there are sounds in the DX that don't sound quite the same in FM8..........

By the way has anyone tried those patches in FM Heaven ? I know it does a better job importing my old DX patches than FM8 or Sytrus....

EDIT: I just loaded a patch called Jazz Guit1 found in one of hundreds of syx banks I've collected......now I don't know if that's the same patch in question but there is a huge difference in the way it sounds when imported into FM Heaven as opposed to FM8. The FM Heaven version is a lot punchier and I believe has that "attack transient" that was mentioned earlier......the FM8 version is rather weak without further tweaking which I have no desire to do..........Oh and adding a T Rack's Black 76 afterwards adds a significant amount of testosterone...... :lol:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
deastman
KVRAF
 
4066 posts since 6 Aug, 2003, from San Francisco Bay Area

Postby deastman; Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:34 pm

Uncle E wrote:
beely wrote:Of course we don't know how that sample was taken but there are clear and significant differences that aren't exactly difficult to hear between the two...


I have a 4 different Lately Bass sample patches and you're correct that they do all sound different from one another. However, the difference between any of them and the Lately Bass sysex in FM8 is far greater.
Which again, just confirms that FM8 sucks at important sysex and mapping parameter values to accurately represent the original DX7 patch. If those parameters were scaled to more appropriate values, I suspect the different would be substantially less. At any rate, I've had FM8 and before that FM7 for years, and have never felt the need to import ancient DX7 patches into it when it is capable of so much more on its own.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/4" audio patchcord
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Teksonik
KVRAF
 
8742 posts since 15 Sep, 2001, from Las Vegas,USA

Postby Teksonik; Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:27 am

Well said deastman. This thread spurred me into going through a bunch of old .syx banks and maybe it's because I owned a DX/TX for so long that the sounds have just become stale and tired......a couple of plucky metal sounds would still be good for layering with other synths and like I said before the Tubular Bells sound is one that I'll always like but the vast majority have just lost any appeal to me........ :shrug:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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Gonga
KVRAF
 
1820 posts since 27 Feb, 2011

Postby Gonga; Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:46 am

Uncle E wrote:
Gonga wrote:Again...the ""Hawaiian Guitar"...the TX...go ahead and dial in this sound in FM8...if you can...please...


You're a monster of a player. :)


Thanks, you're too kind!
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Gonga
KVRAF
 
1820 posts since 27 Feb, 2011

Postby Gonga; Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:58 am

I'll post up some examples eventually - today I'm dealing with life's unexpected "gifts."
ALL YOUR DATA ARE BELONG TO US - Google

https://soundcloud.com/dan-ling
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Uncle E
KVRAF
 
6545 posts since 21 Nov, 2000, from Southern California

Postby Uncle E; Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:54 am

Teksonik wrote:The problem for me is I can't see spending any time trying to emulate patches I never liked in the DX using FM8....... :shrug:


Agreed, there are really only a few DX patches I care about. Since I'm not a monster player like Dan over there and don't need the expressiveness of a synthesized patch, samples work fine for me.

So I guess we will have to agree that there are sounds you can create in FM8 that a DX could never come close to making and there are sounds in the DX that don't sound quite the same in FM8..........


That sums is up!
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electro
KVRAF
 
3318 posts since 5 May, 2002

Postby electro; Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:57 pm

yes but the dx7 has a breath controller input for modulation.
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BBFG#
KVRAF
 
3795 posts since 28 Apr, 2013

Postby BBFG#; Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:59 pm

electro wrote:yes but the dx7 has a breath controller input for modulation.


Which took more wind than a real wind instrument.
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toine6
KVRian
 
1174 posts since 28 Mar, 2002, from Salt Lake City, Utah - U.S.A.

Postby toine6; Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:54 am

After further testing (as of today) I have decided the FM-7 is still pretty close to the original DX-7, the differences are there but quite minor, and certainly not worth all the headaches and hassle of using the original. The original DX-7 is not only a pain to deal with because of the programming, but it has EARLY/archaic midi which wasn't quite ironed out yet. Transferring and editing patches using a PC editor is pain in the butt, much more so than with modern hardware synths.

The original sounds maybe a bit clearer (cutting, sparkly, defined), where the software is a little muffled, muddy and dark. But with some eq and compression and the like you can get by alright. It will be hard to hear much difference in the file I've posted, but it gives you some idea.

So here's a crumby comparison between a few patches. I first recorded the DX7 followed right after by FM7 doing the same part. It's not perfectly volume matched or anything. Hardly a scientific test. But it's all I have time for.

https://soundcloud.com/chalk-maze/dx7-compared-to-fm7

This file will only be up for a month or two before I delete it.
MrDuke
KVRist
 
105 posts since 9 Aug, 2009

Postby MrDuke; Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:07 am

toine6 wrote:After further testing (as of today) I have decided the FM-7 is still pretty close to the original DX-7, the differences are there but quite minor, and certainly not worth all the headaches and hassle of using the original.


FM7? Is there an audible difference between FM7 and FM8? I know I certainly prefer the retro interface of the former ;) but sonically speaking? (I'm glad Propellerheads kept the old school DX7 vibe for their PX7)
maxxxter
 

Postby maxxxter; Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:31 am

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