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Your VSTi sounds analog? - OK then emulate this!

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion

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KVRAF
 
8929 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:28 pm

hakey wrote:A patient at my local surgery, a notorious and somewhat neurotic hypochondriac, was told that her latest round of tests had come back negative and that the only remaining possibility was that her symptoms were due to a psychosomatic illness. Visibly taken aback, she replied: "Oh my God! Is it serious?"
There are people with panic attacks who think they'll get an heart attack - and they get nothing.

And there are people without panic attacks who think they'll never get a heart attack - but they get one...

You just never get what you want... :wink:
KVRAF
 
13604 posts since 23 Jun, 2010, from north of London ON
 

Postby trimph1; Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:32 pm

This thread sounds so much like me it is a bit scary :scared: :help:
Barry
The man who survived mustard gas and pepper spray is now a seasoned veteran
http://www.ambientonline.org/
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KVRAF
 
6090 posts since 4 Oct, 2007, from A shitty little village that I will re-escape soon
    

Postby Dean Aka Nekro; Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:37 pm

IncarnateX wrote:You must be kidding sweetie. Psychosomatics concerns physical reactions to psychic pressure like stress (e.g. stomach wounds) while delusions are often used in relation to psychoses. Sorry mate but I must appeal to authority here and say as a Ph.D. and associate professor in psychology I should know and I do! :wink:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5hI6VY_rmE
That explains a lot even though THE AMAZING has no way of proving it
KVRist
 
231 posts since 14 Oct, 2007, from Toms River,N.J.

Postby elwoodblues1969; Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:56 pm

IncarnateX wrote:
elwoodblues1969 wrote: Really...are you serious?You want me to piss away hours of my time digging through all of my synths and program from scratch,to try to replicate a specific tweak from a hardware synth?Why bother?
Even if I were to do that and post it here,you would pick it apart & dismiss it,simply because I didn't use a piece of hardware to do it.

I am not going to waste my time to try & satisfy your psychosomatic delusions about hardware versus software.

I made a suggestion for to explore at least some of the softsynths I mentioned and you tell me to shut the f**k up?

F**k you...go to TubeOhm's website,try the demos and challenge yourself,you goddamn jack-ass.


BOO-HOO! Cry me a river.

PS: You still haven't posted anyhting useful but i bet you know that deep down inside.

PPS: "psychosomatic" delusions? Do you mean "psychotic" delusions? Try to look up the words and learn the difference if you want to look like you have any idea about what you are writing. :wink:


I'm fond of hardware myself...particularly my old Korg Triton Extreme with it's built in tube & Kurzweil's VAST engine(as some of the sonic characteristics and presets are very difficult to replicate)...but in the right hands,software developers can nail it down...but starting a debate war and insulting anyone who doesn't agree or has a different opinion than you do and becoming irate at someone to the point of using inflammatory responses as you've done(in opposition to my initial,benign & civilized post),is the most useless thing of all...on your part.

To even start such a thread is not very useful at all(except of course,to entertain your fascination with Analogue Solutions).
For the most part,the only reason I,as well as most other people even posted in this thread at all,was to satisfy our curiosity as to why yet again...some one was frivolous enough to drudge up this dubious,age old pissing contest.

25 years ago,there was a clear dividing line between what was clearly,lush...deep and warm sounding and what was digital sounding...most notably for example,the contrast between say...the Korg DS-8 and the Roland Super JX-10 keyboards.

So...here we are...decades later,& you discover a retro line of hardware synths that are undisputedly wonderful in sonic character....but where I get fuzzy,is why you feel that the quality of Analogue Solutions somehow warrants a debate whereby hairs are split over the marginal if not completely non-existent differences between this one particular hardware developer you mentioned and all of the softsynths that are available currently.

To put it another way,you stating or implying that Analogue Solutions is nearly impossible to replicate with software or that somehow this hardware company is superior to most if not all software...which is tantamount to me proclaiming that my old Korg Triton EX is superior to software(just because Korg never bothered to make a Legacy Triton EX version of it,for computer use).

We understand you love hardware(Analogue Solutions in particular),but behaving like the elitist,pompous prick that you are,does not reinforce your claims at all.
The fact that you have the tendency to speak as you have in an online debate in such a rude and abrasive manner(such as you would never dare do in a pub,for example),over such a petty disagreement...does not aide in your argument either.

The context in which I used the term psychosomatic,was indeed improper(under the stringent rules of collegiate grammar)...but I chose to use it informally,to illustrate your emotional obsession with hardware,which in my opinion,altered your perception of sound.

Well...at least Vurt was bright enough to understand my use of the term & most everyone else got the message I was trying to convey(despite my atrocious misuse of syntax). :roll:

A note to Dean,Vurt and Neumanoid....thanks for the laughs guys,you dudes belong on SNL!
For Drakan:The Ancients Gates fans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em9XUSiE7f4
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KVRAF
 
2181 posts since 3 Aug, 2003, from Narnia
 

Postby Andywanders; Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:27 pm

IncarnateX wrote:
Andywanders wrote:

Direct link...

http://www.kvraudio.com/banks.php?s=dl&id=1930

If anyone wants to edit it further, please go ahead.

Cheers


I would love to hear it and credit your efforts mate, but I get the message "Can't read new preset v" everytime I try to open it. My version of Sylenth 1 is 2.2.


Will do a quick render this evening.

;)
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KVRAF
 
1790 posts since 25 Jan, 2009

Postby IncarnateX; Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:26 pm

elwoodblues1969 wrote:I'm fond of hardware myself...particularly my old Korg Triton Extreme with it's built in tube & Kurzweil's VAST engine(as some of the sonic characteristics and presets are very difficult to replicate)...but in the right hands,software developers can nail it down...but starting a debate war and insulting anyone who doesn't agree or has a different opinion than you do and becoming irate at someone to the point of using inflammatory responses as you've done(in opposition to my initial,benign & civilized post),is the most useless thing of all...on your part.

To even start such a thread is not very useful at all(except of course,to entertain your fascination with Analogue Solutions).
For the most part,the only reason I,as well as most other people even posted in this thread at all,was to satisfy our curiosity as to why yet again...some one was frivolous enough to drudge up this dubious,age old pissing contest.

25 years ago,there was a clear dividing line between what was clearly,lush...deep and warm sounding and what was digital sounding...most notably for example,the contrast between say...the Korg DS-8 and the Roland Super JX-10 keyboards.

So...here we are...decades later,& you discover a retro line of hardware synths that are undisputedly wonderful in sonic character....but where I get fuzzy,is why you feel that the quality of Analogue Solutions somehow warrants a debate whereby hairs are split over the marginal if not completely non-existent differences between this one particular hardware developer you mentioned and all of the softsynths that are available currently.

To put it another way,you stating or implying that Analogue Solutions is nearly impossible to replicate with software or that somehow this hardware company is superior to most if not all software...which is tantamount to me proclaiming that my old Korg Triton EX is superior to software(just because Korg never bothered to make a Legacy Triton EX version of it,for computer use).

We understand you love hardware(Analogue Solutions in particular),but behaving like the elitist,pompous prick that you are,does not reinforce your claims at all.
The fact that you have the tendency to speak as you have in an online debate in such a rude and abrasive manner(such as you would never dare do in a pub,for example),over such a petty disagreement...does not aide in your argument either.

The context in which I used the term psychosomatic,was indeed improper(under the stringent rules of collegiate grammar)...but I chose to use it informally,to illustrate your emotional obsession with hardware,which in my opinion,altered your perception of sound.

Well...at least Vurt was bright enough to understand my use of the term & most everyone else got the message I was trying to convey(despite my atrocious misuse of syntax). :roll:

A note to Dean,Vurt and Neumanoid....thanks for the laughs guys,you dudes belong on SNL!


You are so full of assertions about me gathered ex nihilo that I wouldn't know how to start: Emotional obsession with hardware? :lol: Try to actually read the OP and learn that I only use software. Implying that Analog Solutions is superior and nearly impossible to replicate? Warrents a debate? I just wanted someone to be provoked to actually replicate as close as possible the sound so I could reproduce the sound in software you poor little raving paranoid thing. And you call me delusive?

And if you do not want people to be harsh against you, do not post better knowing monologues in which you write to them as if they were idiots that haven't got a clue about what they are talking about. Like this patronizing sentence in your first post:

For someone who claims he is not an analogue synth freak,you sure behave like one...whatever dude...to each his own.


a statement based on my OP, which says nothing about me having hardware obsessions or analog preferences, on the contrary.

Now add to that your "f**k off" and "Jack ass" statements, which you just have just kindly quoted, and your self righteousness is worth nothing. It is even below "pathetic".

Apart from that I am sure you are a nice guy and wish you a nice day and a happy life :wink:
Last edited by IncarnateX on Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KVRAF
 
8515 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds
 

Postby pdxindy; Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:47 pm

VitaminD wrote:I thought this site was about synthesizers and audio software and not about your difficulties interacting with one another due to conflicting personalities.. :help:


You must be new to KVR... :hihi:
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KVRAF
 
1790 posts since 25 Jan, 2009

Postby IncarnateX; Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:59 pm

Dean Aka Nekro wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5hI6VY_rmE
That explains a lot even though THE AMAZING has no way of proving it


Funny. It may be impossible to be wrong as a Ph.d. in USA. However here in Europe things are different and the most important part of your research is to correct former errors with regard to assertions, method, analysis and conclusions. I would love to admit an error here but unfortunately for both me and the loyal KVR audience I was very very very right as far as psychosomatics concerns. Sorry, I will try never to be right again, promise :(
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KVRian
 
1207 posts since 5 Mar, 2001, from London, UK

Postby HanafiH; Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:23 am

zerocrossing wrote:Ah, see you're correct but...

I'd rather listen to a piece done with Synthedit freeware that had actual musical content than listen to an uninspired track done with all the best analog synths...

In the end though, it's up to us to make music with whatever tools we choose, but we need to separate sound design from music too, or else it doesn't matter.


Absolutely yes. But...

When Sequential Circuits went to the wall, the rights to the Prophet 5 were bought by Yamaha. Yamaha, working with the P5's original engineers, spent years developing a hardware digital version of it. When, in 1997, the AN1X was launched, Yamaha invited all the best known professional musicians using the P5 to a presentation, where an original P5 and an AN1X were put behind a screen. The deal offered was that any musician who could consistently identify the real P5 from the AN1X could have an AN1X for free. Nobody won. That's when digital first bettered real analogue, fifteen years ago, everything else since is mouth farting.

The current analogues du jour seem to me to be the Sylenth, Diva and Monark and those deliciously tempting german Analogue 4 hardware boxes. Reams of badly spelled text flood and wash across the internet about how majestically better these, and other, analogue subtractive synths are when compared to what went before. Only thing is, almost nobody can consistently tell these instruments apart, even in soloed tracks, and when, in the context of a typical mix, nobody can. The intensity of the concern over footling marginal differences between these instruments, hard and soft, does not mean that any of it matters, and I mean, at all.

Analogue? If you can't do it with good freeware, you can't do it.
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KVRAF
 
7793 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany
  

Postby Ingonator; Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:19 am

While i got and use tons of software synths and agree that some of the newer plugins seem to nail analog sounds very well (e.g. Monark, Diva, TAL synths, Xils Lsb synths etc.) i will always love to play with real analog synths like i have done for around 10 years now. Not that i own a big collection of analog synths but during the last 10 years i always had at least one of those.
For me the current developments in affordable and also more expensive real analog synths (and there seem to be tons of them) is at least as amazing as the recent developments in DSP technology (e.g. zero delay feedback filters).

For me there will be never something like software only or hardware only but a good mix of both where softsynths will always be the majority except if i would turn very rich and could afford all kinds of hardware synths without problems.

Anyway IMO there IS still a difference in real analog synths. The question is just if it matters and in certain situations it does matter for me. Others would maybe not care at all which is OK too.

Another story is that after owning a Minimoog around 9 years ago and sold it i was searching for a replacement and finally with Monark found a perfect one.

This does not mean i have no need for a real analog synth anymore as those two i currently got are different to a Minimoog even if one of them is a Moog synth (Slim Phatty).
That's the point. In hardware analog synths there are as many differences as in softsynths. There is nothing like a "typical analog sound". Concerning "weak" sounding there were also hardware analog synths that would fit there IMO. For example you could not really compare the DCO Oberheim synths like Matrix-1000 or Matrix-6 to their VCO counterparts like e.g. SEM, OB-X, OB-8 or Matrix-12. On the other hand there are also DCO synths that sound great. There is no general rule for that. Also older software synths without the latest technology could sound great (e.g. the Korg plugins).


Ingo
Waldorf Beta Forum Manager
"Atmospheric Transients" for PPG Wave 3.V
"Analog vs Digital" for Blofeld
Win 7 64-bit / Live 9 / Reaper / Studio One 2.6 / Blofeld / Pulse 2 /Waldorf + Tone 2 plugins + others
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KVRAF
 
2181 posts since 3 Aug, 2003, from Narnia
 

Postby Andywanders; Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:34 am

Andywanders wrote:Will do a quick render this evening.


Hmm... On a second listening, it's not... well... 'ave a listen...

http://www.mediafire.com/download/uufpa ... enth+1.wav


:?
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KVRAF
 
1790 posts since 25 Jan, 2009

Postby IncarnateX; Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:24 am

Andywanders wrote:Hmm... On a second listening, it's not... well... 'ave a listen...

http://www.mediafire.com/download/uufpa ... enth+1.wav


:?


Thank you very much for your efforts Andy.

Well....you got the sequence all right but I doubt a blind test could fool us on this one. It does indeed have a touch of the timbre but in my ears there is some kind of "crunchiness" to the sound that makes it sound more "digital" compared to the very smooth and snappy-filtered sound of the Telemark. The telemark has an delay. Adding that to your example may smooth the timbre more out.

However of the two posted challenges I would say that the Telemark example really is the most demanding and question is whether one could get that much closer with more work or another synth like Diva (wouldn't suprise me if Urs could get it closer though).

I will compromise and say that I agree to your proposed term: It is "close-ish".

At least the hang-arounds in this thread are now free to judge for themselves and decide whether I am unfair and biased here.

Thanks again for taking the time meet the challenge.

Cheers to you Andy.
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KVRAF
 
4788 posts since 25 Feb, 2008, from Babylon an ting
 

Postby hakey; Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:28 am

Here's my not very good attempt using Diva:

Oberkorn vs Diva

It should be possible to get much closer, which makes me suspect I've missed something obvious.

If anyone thinks they can do better, the original clip plus a looped excerpt, a midi sequence, and the Diva patch can be found here.
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KVRAF
 
1790 posts since 25 Jan, 2009

Postby IncarnateX; Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:48 am

hakey wrote:Here's my not very good attempt using Diva:

Oberkorn vs Diva

It should be possible to get much closer, which makes me suspect I've missed something obvious.


Eeh dunno. It is definitely not bad in my ears. I think I will withdraw my statement to Andy as to whether we can get closer yet. I am starting to believe it... but yes something that I have not words for may still be missing. Maybe a little surgery from Urs could add it.

Thanks for the efforts Hakey. Surprised me that you actually took the time to pull it off after the first 11 pages of this otherwise deeply polluted and shitty thread. Cool.
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KVRAF
 
4788 posts since 25 Feb, 2008, from Babylon an ting
 

Postby hakey; Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:04 am

No, it's a fair way off to my ears. The original is raspy, zingy and spitty - in comparison, the Diva version is too smooth, a bit on the bassey side and the attack kind of 'flubby'.

And I'm not sure what modulation signals the sequencer is outputting (there's three rows of knobs in the vid) - I routed a modulation signal to open the filter, which may be wrong.

Can anyone improve on it?
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