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Salt - tech preview / test demo

Official support for: signaldust.com

Moderator: mystran

KVRAF
 
3917 posts since 16 Feb, 2005

Postby camsr; Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:31 pm

mystran wrote:
camsr wrote:Okay, multiple instances ARE working, but didn't one time
:help:


Did you get some ugly error for that, or was it just a failure to process anything?

edit: I seriously hope that this is my bug, and not some case of "not invented here" again..


These "failures to process" have been confusing to say the least. No errors, either a failure to change state when changing the schematic, or a silent output.
Image
KVRAF
 
3925 posts since 11 Feb, 2006, from Helsinki, Finland
 

Postby mystran; Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:07 pm

camsr wrote:
mystran wrote:
camsr wrote:Okay, multiple instances ARE working, but didn't one time
:help:


Did you get some ugly error for that, or was it just a failure to process anything?

edit: I seriously hope that this is my bug, and not some case of "not invented here" again..


These "failures to process" have been confusing to say the least. No errors, either a failure to change state when changing the schematic, or a silent output.


Yeah ok, so no crashes. That's a good start. If you change the schematic, and that doesn't have any effect, then that would be weird, but maybe it'll help narrow down the problem. Just in case.. what host are you using? Shouldn't make any difference, but still you never know. :)

But in any case, I promise that I'll fix it as soon as I see it happening so I can figure out what the problem is.. until then there's not a whole lot I can do about it.. sadly.
Image <- plugins | forum
KVRAF
 
3917 posts since 16 Feb, 2005

Postby camsr; Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:52 am

FL v10
Image
KVRAF
 
3925 posts since 11 Feb, 2006, from Helsinki, Finland
 

Postby mystran; Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:53 pm

camsr wrote:FL v10


Oh well, FL shouldn't cause problems, that's the most well tested host when it comes to my plugins. ;)

Apparently there is one reliable way to get to a situation where power-cycle doesn't seem to update anything.. it's a bug obviously, but if you have a ground-object that is not connected (and in this case even an useless piece of wire qualifies as a "connection"), then the circuit compiler will just give up, without even cleaning up any previous versions and it's probably going to be quite confusing.

As far as I can't tell, that should be the only case where an existing version survives a power-cycle. There might be some other bug causing silence though..
Image <- plugins | forum
KVRAF
 
3917 posts since 16 Feb, 2005

Postby camsr; Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:37 am

So far so good
I think some of the problems arise when clearing the schematic and starting anew. I haven't been having problems since continuing from my presets.

What is the series resistance of the diode?
Image
KVRAF
 
3925 posts since 11 Feb, 2006, from Helsinki, Finland
 

Postby mystran; Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:02 pm

camsr wrote:What is the series resistance of the diode?


It appears to be 10 ohm; probably a bit excessive really. I'll be doing an update soon though, to fix some of the worst bugs (just trying to catch a few more first), I could see if I can match the diodes and transistors a bit closer to some real-world components... or at least copy some Spice parameters.
Image <- plugins | forum
KVRAF
 
3917 posts since 16 Feb, 2005

Postby camsr; Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:37 am

I transfered a schematic from Salt to IdealCircuit, and I think the diodes are causing some differences. Can I PM you the preset to take a look?
Image
KVRist
 
60 posts since 21 May, 2002

Postby rola; Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:34 pm Re: Salt - tech preview / test demo

Any news on the update?
KVRAF
 
3925 posts since 11 Feb, 2006, from Helsinki, Finland
 

Postby mystran; Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:48 pm Re: Salt - tech preview / test demo

rola wrote:Any news on the update?


Yeah. I've broken a lot of things. :D

On a more serious note, I had to do some moderately large-scale changes into the code-base (to fix some limitations) and some of those are not currently in very stable state... so right now the development build is even more broken than the current demo build, but it's progressing slowly but surely (slowly mostly because I've been putting more time into InEqualizer).
Image <- plugins | forum
User avatar
DuX
KVRAF
 
3186 posts since 14 Mar, 2002, from Underworld
 

Postby DuX; Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:52 pm Re: Salt - tech preview / test demo

Is this interesting? Everything you do mystran is interesting! :) And this is a really really great idea! I love it! :clap:
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
User avatar
KVRAF
 
8807 posts since 7 Dec, 2004
 

Postby aciddose; Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:24 pm Re: Salt - tech preview / test demo

Dux! Got my hopes up he was posting with a new version with all of the most awesome features.

I can't wait for a version with pnp and other modeling devices like current sources, V->I, and a few others. There is a threshold where it becomes possible to model just about any component that isn't included directly and the great advantage of this sort of thing is not just what you can do with it in terms of audio, since that would be ridiculously inefficient. The real application is as an additional step you can add between design, spice and bench testing.

You always know roughly what something sounds like at the spice stage, but to really understand the performance of a circuit absolutely requires bench testing. Armed with a tool like this with a few minor additions the iterative design/implement/test could be handled mostly in software eliminating the need for bread boarding at least until the point where tweaks are made to compensate real-world performance.

There is of course a major difference between soldering or even just clipping components together (alligator or other patches) versus being able to click a couple buttons.
KVRAF
 
3925 posts since 11 Feb, 2006, from Helsinki, Finland
 

Postby mystran; Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:17 am Re: Salt - tech preview / test demo

aciddose wrote:I can't wait for a version with pnp and other modeling devices like current sources, V->I, and a few others.


Working on update, but will unfortunately take a bit more time.

Anyway, I'll probably add a pnp complement and maybe something else (cheap ideal current mirror might be kinda useful, working on controlled sources), we'll see.
Image <- plugins | forum
User avatar
KVRAF
 
8807 posts since 7 Dec, 2004
 

Postby aciddose; Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:06 am Re: Salt - tech preview / test demo

Ideal current mirror, you mean an I->I source? I've always figured these should be the easiest to implement... although maybe my assumption about how they'd be handled is wrong. My guess would be when specifying current it is exactly like a resistor, only rather than current being dependent upon voltage, it's just set to a fixed value. So the whole process should in theory execute as if it were indeed a resistor, but the equation would output the value directly rather than doing any computation.

I->I is a little more complex, but I'd think something like a 1-ohm resistor would work for measurement (I = V1 - V2). V->I is easy, just take the difference of two node voltages (+, -) directly. I->V or V->V would end up as V sources I suppose.

I guess though it comes down to how the code is set up. Normally it would make sense to think of a current source as a resistor with fixed current, a voltage source as a normal voltage source. Then controlled sources inherit from those and add the controlling elements. That sort of thing is where it gets really complicated of course where one little design misstep can multiply the work by orders of magnitude.
KVRAF
 
3925 posts since 11 Feb, 2006, from Helsinki, Finland
 

Postby mystran; Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:44 am Re: Salt - tech preview / test demo

Technically it's all rather simple, just equations. I believe it should already all work with the ideal opamps (and resistors which are technically just a special case of VCCS) and from the point of view of math or the resulting code it doesn't really matter, but from the usability point of view more straight-forward voltage and current buffers/mirrors/whatever would be kinda useful. So it's really an interface/usability thing, not a technical issue.
Image <- plugins | forum
KVRist
 
152 posts since 3 Oct, 2002

Postby urosh; Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:37 pm Re: Salt - tech preview / test demo

Just few quick comments:
I find editor very easy, fast and usable (I use Simetrix most of the time), only thing I miss a bit is some way to select and move several components (not that it matter much since I haven't figured out the way to enlarge schematic, so I'm kind of limited in number of components).
Distortions are working great, including Serge type wavefolder. With VCFs I had a bit of a problems regarding CPU consumption (I have rather old T7600@2GHz). Non voltage controllabe SVF with nonlinearities is ok. My machine managed to pull korgish diode ring VCF, but ladder filters were no go, second order diode ladder is ok, add third cap with diodes and it's stutter city. This is all in stereo.
BTW, that diode vcf ventured into bizzar behavior at onset of selfoscilation, I we got some intense stero effect now and then (meaning drasticaly different response from left and right channel). I'm sure you didn't model noise or parameter spread for components, so I'm not sure why this happens.

I would really like if you could include input gain, output gain and dry gain. Otherwise, incredible plugin (you've alredy saved me at least two days of bredboarding).
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