What is KVR Audio? | Submit News | Advertise | Developer Account

Options (Affects News & Product results only):

OS:
Format:
Include:
Quick Search KVR

"Quick Search" KVR Audio's Product Database, News Items, Developer Listings, Forum Topics and videos here. For advanced Product Database searching please use the full product search. For the forum you can use the phpBB forum search.

To utilize the power of Google you can use the integrated Google Site Search.

Products 0

Developers 0

News 0

Forum 0

Videos 0

Search  

Keyboard Key Measurements (various)

Anything about hardware musical instruments.

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

CT007
KVRist
 
32 posts since 6 Mar, 2013

Postby CT007; Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:34 pm Keyboard Key Measurements (various)

Hello peoples! :party: :phones:

I was thinking, why not start a "database" of keyboard key measurements, since this apparently doesn't exist...? Lots of different keyboards, even from the same company, have lots of different width keys, did you know that? Well, I didn't, for a while... Thinner keys are harder to play, is the problem(for me).

I got these measurements by going to Guitar Center with a tape measure and, well, you can figure out the rest. They are pretty accurate, I'd say, since several groups of them go together. I was only interested in 5 octaves(or 1, to calculate 5), so I reckon that can be the 'standard' measurement to compare to/with.

So, let's go ahead and post all the other keyboard's measurements, eh? :) (Measure from the left of the lowest key, to the right of the 61st key)

Thanks & hf!

yamarolakorg 61.jpg


-----[5 Octave Measurements: C-to-C (~)]-----

33 6.5/16" (33.40625"):
-Roland RD-700NX
-Williams Allegro 88
-Yamaha MM8

33 3/8" (33.375"):
-Casio CDP-120
-Korg Kronos X 88
-Korg Krome 88
-Yamaha Motif XF8
-Yamaha DGX-650
-Yamaha MOX8
-Yamaha P155
-Yamaha P105
-Yamaha CP33

33 5/16" (33.3125"):
-Casio PX-150
-Casio PX-350
-Korg Kross 88
-Krog SP-280
-Alesis V61


33 1/4" (33.25") - {1 OCT = 7 3/8"}:
-Korg Kronos 61
-Korg PS60
-M-Audio Axiom AIR 49/61 (MIDI controller)
-Novation Impulse 49/61 (MIDI controller)
-Novation SlMkII 49/61 (MIDI controller)
-Nord Electro4/Stage2

33 3.5/16" (33.21875")
-Korg Kross 61
-Korg Krome 61

32 15/16" (32.9375"):
-Roland D-70
-Roland JV-30
-Roland Juno-Di/Gi

32 14.5/16" (32.90625"):
-Casio WK-6500
-Casio XW-P1/G1

32 9/16" (32.5625"):
-Yamaha PSR-E433
-Yamaha YPT-220
-Yamaha YPG-235/535
-Yamaha NP-11/31

32.114":
-Line 6 Mobile Keys 25/49 (MIDI controller)

31.977":
-M-Audio Oxygen 49/61 (MIDI controller)

31.57":
-Yamaha MX49/61
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by CT007 on Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mitch I.
KVRist
 
93 posts since 2 May, 2003, from Ohio, USA

Postby Mitch I.; Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:46 am Re: Keyboard Key Measurements (various)

Thanks for doing this. I had assumed that there was a standard.

I measured 61 keys on my acoustic piano and got 33 3/8. It's a Charles R. Walter upright.

Mitch I.
User avatar
Ingonator
KVRAF
 
8240 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:23 am Re: Keyboard Key Measurements (various)

Korg Wavestation EX : 32.52 " (for 61 keys)

Yamaha Motif ES 7 : 32.52 " (for 61 keys)


Both seem to have the same size.


Ingo
Waldorf Beta Forum Manager
"Atmospheric Transients" for PPG Wave 3.V
"Analog vs Digital" for Blofeld
Win 7 64-bit / Live 9 / Cubase 7.5 / Studio One / Reaper / Pro Tools // Blofeld / Pulse 2 / many plugins
BBFG#
KVRAF
 
4011 posts since 28 Apr, 2013

Postby BBFG#; Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:46 am Re: Keyboard Key Measurements (various)

Older stuff:
Both 61 keys:

Korg N5: 33-3/8"
Emu Xboard 61: 33"
CT007
KVRist
 
32 posts since 6 Mar, 2013

Postby CT007; Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:48 pm Re: Keyboard Key Measurements (various)

Added Alesis V61, coming in at a very impressive 33 5/16"! Which makes it the widest(=best!) controller out there, I believe.

I purchased this controller, and really love it so far(my favorite MIDI controller keys by far, I think), but I can't comment on the velocity sensitivity yet, due to having to return it for replacement from having a dead middle-G key :s

I strongly disagree with this person on Amazon who rated this keyboard a measly 2/5 stars... You can't trust Amazon reviews anymore, it's sickening... For $150, you get a lot with this kb!
JCJR
KVRian
 
973 posts since 17 Apr, 2005

Postby JCJR; Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:28 pm Re: Keyboard Key Measurements (various)

The depth of the keyboard affects playing as well, at least two ways--

1. Big two fisted chords can be awkward to finger if the keys are not long enough front-to-back.

2. Short keys can present velocity-touch difficulties, because the leverage can be all wrong, making it more difficult to control velocity or play even-velocity melodies and chords mixing black and white keys.

Here are some measurements. I used the depth gage on dial calipers to try to get key length more accurate, but no guaranties on the exact measurements, as I'm no machinist and the tool does require some skill to properly use.

Yamaha KX88 controller- 61 of the 88 keys, c-to-c-- width = 33 3/8", white key length = 5.9", black key length = 3.85"

1940's era baldwin 5' 2" grand piano-- 61 keys width = 33 3/8", white key length = 5.52", black key length = 3.55". The width is same as kx88, but key length was somewhat a surprise-- I've played the dang thang for at least 55 years and never noticed the keys are a little short! I presume full size grands probably have longer keys. Dunno if baldwin put short keys on the small grands of that era, or maybe that was the standard action size, that time and place. Interesting.

Early 1950's era Hammond model M-- 44 notes F to C = 24". Extrapolating 26 white key span to the 36 white key span of a 61, if I'm figuring it right, ought to be about 33 1/4". White key length = 5.33", black key length = 3.35"

Ensoniq ESQ-1 width = 33 5/16. White key length = 5.32", black key length = 3.35". This is so close to the hammond measurement, perhaps a person more accurate at measuring might get the exact same numbers from both?

Roland fa-06 width = 32 7/8", white length= 5.15", black length = 3.2".
mkdr
KVRian
 
1360 posts since 5 May, 2007, from Finland

Postby mkdr; Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:03 am Re: Keyboard Key Measurements (various)

:x :x :x :x
Le Système International d'Unités!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio ... m_of_Units
:x :x :x :x


Yamaha S80 : 82.5 cm - (16.5 cm / octave)
white keys: 15cm
black keys: 10cm

M-Audio Venom: 81.25 cm (65 cm / 4 octaves) - (16.25 cm / octave)
white keys: 13.7 cm
black keys: 8.5 cm
www.mkdr.net

MophoEd - the BEST DSI Mopho Editor VSTi
mkdr
KVRian
 
1360 posts since 5 May, 2007, from Finland

Postby mkdr; Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:24 am Re: Keyboard Key Measurements (various)

Oh, wait.. Was it supposed to be for 5 Octaves or for 61 keys?!
I measured the 5 octaves
www.mkdr.net

MophoEd - the BEST DSI Mopho Editor VSTi
rod_zero
KVRian
 
722 posts since 28 Jan, 2011, from MEXICO

Postby rod_zero; Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:31 am Re: Keyboard Key Measurements (various)

Why on eartth people can't use the metric system?
dedication to flying
JCJR
KVRian
 
973 posts since 17 Apr, 2005

Postby JCJR; Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:41 am Re: Keyboard Key Measurements (various)

I actually favor the cubit.

But it is so annoying that babylonia, rome, india, thailand, maya and others stubbornly developed their own local incompatible cubit standards rather than simply adopting the good old egyptian cubit as Thoth intended!
CT007
KVRist
 
32 posts since 6 Mar, 2013

Postby CT007; Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:32 pm Re: Keyboard Key Measurements (various)

mkdr wrote:Oh, wait.. Was it supposed to be for 5 Octaves or for 61 keys?!
I measured the 5 octaves


I figured a 5 octave keyboard is the most common for synth/MIDI, so that was easiest for me to work with. 5 octaves = 61 total keys(25 black/accidental, 36 white/natural).

So, to find how wide(relatively!) each white key is, you divide your 61 key measurement by 36(white keys only).
CT007
KVRist
 
32 posts since 6 Mar, 2013

Postby CT007; Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:37 pm Re: Keyboard Key Measurements (various)

JCJR wrote:2. Short keys can present velocity-touch difficulties, because the leverage can be all wrong, making it more difficult to control velocity or play even-velocity melodies and chords mixing black and white keys.


I concur 100%! This is about the only gripe I have with this Alesis V61; the black keys have a poorer velocity sensitivity than the whites :( This may be common with plastic MIDI keyboards, though. But hey, for ~$150, it beats the competition, imo!! :love:

How do you like that FA-06? Was it worth it..? My problem with the Juno Di, at least, was the thin keys, very poor velocity sensitivity, and low-grade sound quality.

Just for the record, my favorite synth keys/keybed is the Korg Kronos 61. Absolutely godlike feeling to play...I would buy nothing else; spend not a penny more or less on any keyboard! Then, hook it up and play a Roland/Yamaha through MIDI-out 8) Best of both/all worlds.
JCJR
KVRian
 
973 posts since 17 Apr, 2005

Postby JCJR; Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:59 pm Re: Keyboard Key Measurements (various)

Hi CT007

I had a Kronos 61 for about a week. Generally liked it fine, but it had an intermittent but 100% repeatable crashing bug, which made me distrustful of the gadget so I sent it back rather than play russian roulette on a replacement. They are probably as good built as any other keyboard, but the thing costed a lot of money to be worrying that if I exchanged it for a new replacement initially-healthy unit, that maybe the replacement would develop the same problems as soon as the warranty expires (which would be about my luck). Was very enthusiastic about getting one before that, but it just killed my enthusiasm for the model. Am sure they are fine and I just got a lemon.

For me, that keyboard feel would have been playable but would have taken some getting used-to. I don't mind stiff weighted actions, especially if smooth like a rhodes or some of the steinways. But I prefer non-weighted keyboards to be rather light-touch. The Kronos 61 felt pretty stiff and would have been a little awkward playing organ or string parts on it. Its hard to explain. I can play organ or string parts fine on the KX-88, which is on the stiff side as weighted actions go. But a spring-operated stiff plastic action gives me problems for some reason. Could have got used to it. Initially was too-often playing the kronos 61 black keys too light, though that's not a problem on stiffer actions like grand piano, weighted controller, or rhodes. Would have had to get in the habit of slamming the kronos plastic action harder.

The FA-06, the keyboard is light and fairly shallow. So far I don't mind it at all for non-piano playing. Organ, synth, etc. I could play piano on it if I had to, but would have to "walk on eggshells" to keep the velocity in control, because I'm a pretty heavy-handed piano player. Without constant vigilance, I'd tend to play everything FFF playing piano on the FA-06 keyboard because it is so light. Have played better-feeling plastic non-weighted keys, but it doesn't bug me, and seems built pretty good. I've never destroyed a roland keyboard yet by playing it too much or too hard, but there's always a first time. Its a little "clacky" but not bad IMO.

I'll play piano or rhodes or whatever patches, driving the FA from the KX88. Works fine. The small size of the keys hasn't bothered me, but with it stacked on the KX88, its visually annoying that if I line up the lowest C, the top C is not lined up, and vice-versa. I "split the difference" so the middle keys are perfectly lined up, and both ends are slightly out of whack, misaligned between the KX88 and the FA. Just a slight aesthetic annoyance, no impediment to playing both keyboards at the same time.

Soundwise, I don't have serious complaints with the FA. Have had it most of the year, but been busy fooling with room acoustic treatment and such, haven't spent enough time making my own tweaked patches. It is fun and easy to tweak. lots of possibilities in the sound engine.

Haven't used it enough to get used to it. Sometimes I'll play a patch and it sounds great, then play it another day and it doesn't sound so great. One possible issue I'll get sorted out after programming it to my liking-- It might have "too many programmable options". A patch can be programmed including EQ, compression, reverb, and a fairly large menu of other FX. I've been so accustomed to fairly dry keyboards where if you want compression, reverb, EQ, you add it after the fact, rather than all that stuff bundled with each patch.

For instance, some of the rhodes tones are pretty usable, but was playing some high cluster chords and said, "dang, that thing is distorted like an old tube amp". I'm not a big fan of distortion on rhodes. Was worried maybe this was a fault of the synth's playback engine. Not a physical fault, but a design fault that can't sound clean and pure on a rhodes tone.

Well, come to find out the patch had a tube and speaker emulator saved with the patch. Thats why it sounded like playing a rhodes thru a twin reverb or whatever. All those extras wired in on the various patches could be useful of course, but it is kinda disorienting getting used to what the keyboard basically sounds like, when each patch can so drastically change the playback chain.

I just need to take the time to write patches to my own preferences.
CT007
KVRist
 
32 posts since 6 Mar, 2013

Postby CT007; Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:12 am Re: Keyboard Key Measurements (various)

JCJR wrote:Hi CT007

I had a Kronos 61 for about a week. Generally liked it fine, but it had an intermittent but 100% repeatable crashing bug, which made me distrustful of the gadget so I sent it back rather than play russian roulette on a replacement. They are probably as good built as any other keyboard, but the thing costed a lot of money to be worrying that if I exchanged it for a new replacement initially-healthy unit, that maybe the replacement would develop the same problems as soon as the warranty expires (which would be about my luck). Was very enthusiastic about getting one before that, but it just killed my enthusiasm for the model. Am sure they are fine and I just got a lemon.


That's odd... The Kronos 61's key resistance felt fairly soft/spongy/synthy to me, but the velocity sensitivity was so incredibly super-accurate, like nothing I've felt before(quite literally)! Perhaps you had a brand new model, with stiff keys? Or I played a very used one, or a Kronos X...dunno.

I'm mainly a preset player myself, heh. I hate having to dig around in those tiny synth screens, ugh. Roland needs to make better synths, imo :\ Or give us Roland VSTi's instead...

You have some nice, old songs there on your site =p :clap:
User avatar
robojam
KVRAF
 
21416 posts since 26 Jul, 2005, from Inside Schroedinger's Cat...or am I...

Postby robojam; Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:27 am Re: Keyboard Key Measurements (various)

JCJR wrote:The depth of the keyboard affects playing as well, at least two ways

I'd say depth is more critical as the variation in width is not going to be enough when you consider how much that translates to when considering only the notes you're playing at any one time.

I have a small Akai 25 key controller with short keys - great for just screwing around, but I would never be able to play properly with a full keyboard of keys that short.

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

Return to Hardware (Instruments and Effects)