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A rant about orphan works.

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.

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KForte90
KVRist
 
43 posts since 27 Aug, 2009

Postby KForte90; Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:05 pm A rant about orphan works.

I am a music lover. I like to collect and listen to music as much as I like to create it myself. There is also music that no one can easily get their hands on because it is out of print. The only solution is to contact the publisher. But if the publisher is defunct and there is no way of contacting the copyright holders, then what? You can do nothing. You will have to learn to live without music of this type. You could also find used CDs of this music but at extremely marked-up prices. You could also download the music for free... and then got to prison.

I do not like how some music is not easily obtainable because it is out of print and also because the publishers are defunct and gone missing. We in America were supposed to deal with this problem of these so-called "orphan works" but there is no legislation that has passed to help out-of-print music become more easily accessible. Predicaments like this are the prime reason we cannot have nice things.

Is anyone feeling the same way I do about this? Is there any way we can cope with this that you know of?
BertKoor
KVRAF
 
8306 posts since 8 Mar, 2005, from Utrecht, Holland

Postby BertKoor; Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:55 am Re: A rant about orphan works.

You obviously don't want to go to prison. but...
Instead of contacting a non-existing publisher, you could try to contact the author/artist. Some have boxes full of CDs in their basement.
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vurt
addled muppet weed
 
33652 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass

Postby vurt; Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:04 am Re: A rant about orphan works.

theres more than enough music available that you wouldnt have time to listen to anyway.
but if it means that much to you, you would buy the cds at marked up prices if that was the only way to get it.

you do realise there are people in the world who cant afford medicine, food or stuff like that and youre moaning about music?
Mushy Mushy
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6401 posts since 6 Sep, 2008

Postby Mushy Mushy; Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:23 am Re: A rant about orphan works.

I want an original GT40 but sadly they're out of production.
The only way to acquire one is by purchasing at drastically marked up used prices.
How dare they exploit fundamental economic principles?!
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whyterabbyt
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21392 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:34 am Re: A rant about orphan works.

KForte90 wrote:Is anyone feeling the same way I do about this? Is there any way we can cope with this that you know of?


stop thinking you're entitled to something merely because it exists?
To laymen, software development is something akin to wizardry. Neither time, nor effort are involved. If software is missing features they want, or has bugs, it is solely because someone has been too lazy to wave their magic wand.
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Numanoid
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8687 posts since 20 Jan, 2008, from Down on the farm

Postby Numanoid; Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:08 am Re: A rant about orphan works.

vurt wrote:you do realise there are people in the world who cant afford medicine, food or stuff like that and youre moaning about music?

And what's that got to do with KVR? This is a place of music discussion.

Why do we in case even bother wasting time in here, when we all just should pack our bags and do the right thing, and go and help those people who are suffering from malnutrition and lack of medicine?
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Numanoid
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8687 posts since 20 Jan, 2008, from Down on the farm

Postby Numanoid; Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:12 am Re: A rant about orphan works.

KForte90 wrote: You could also find used CDs of this music but at extremely marked-up prices.

Could you mention a few of the CD's you are looking for, just to have an idea what kind of discs this is.

I am a lot on Discogs, and my impression there is that the music market is totally in the hand of the buyers, there are few discs (even those out of print) that fetch unreasonably high prices

The excption would be stuff like early Boards of Canada, but it is a quesiton of those releases even exsit though.
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Numanoid
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8687 posts since 20 Jan, 2008, from Down on the farm

Postby Numanoid; Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:20 am Re: A rant about orphan works.

When buying CD's at the end of the 80's the price was often around £10-12 as I remember.

In todays money that would be something like £25-35

So collecting music was a lot more expensive in the past then it is now

Back in the 80's bands like Heaven 17 in fact retired from touring and just took their earnings from record sales, that goes to show how much better the market is for the buyer of music now, opposed to how it was then.
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whyterabbyt
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21392 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:32 am Re: A rant about orphan works.

Numanoid wrote:
vurt wrote:you do realise there are people in the world who cant afford medicine, food or stuff like that and youre moaning about music?

And what's that got to do with KVR? This is a place of music discussion.


Perhaps he thinks 'music discussion' of the 'I should have stuff because I want it' variety needs a wider context. Who are you to say it doesnt, exactly?

Or perhaps you'd just like to enlighten us why 'I want stuff, why cant I have it' counts as 'music discussion?' Its not about music itself, about making music, or about tools for making music. Its about owning more things.
To laymen, software development is something akin to wizardry. Neither time, nor effort are involved. If software is missing features they want, or has bugs, it is solely because someone has been too lazy to wave their magic wand.
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vurt
addled muppet weed
 
33652 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass

Postby vurt; Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:38 am Re: A rant about orphan works.

Numanoid wrote:
vurt wrote:you do realise there are people in the world who cant afford medicine, food or stuff like that and youre moaning about music?

And what's that got to do with KVR? This is a place of music discussion.

Why do we in case even bother wasting time in here, when we all just should pack our bags and do the right thing, and go and help those people who are suffering from malnutrition and lack of medicine?



kvr is populated by humans, its a humanity thing.
ie there are bigger things to worry about than not being able to get hold of certain things, especially when as i pointed out but you failed to notice, that there is plenty of other music about that you can get hold of.

also, you dont have to pack any bags or go anywhere to help those less fortunate than you, there are plenty of other avenues available. so you can still sit at home in front of your computer wanking over miley cyrus or whoever it is these days and still make a difference.
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vurt
addled muppet weed
 
33652 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass

Postby vurt; Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:39 am Re: A rant about orphan works.

whyterabbyt wrote:
Numanoid wrote:
vurt wrote:you do realise there are people in the world who cant afford medicine, food or stuff like that and youre moaning about music?

And what's that got to do with KVR? This is a place of music discussion.


Perhaps he thinks 'music discussion' of the 'I should have stuff because I want it' variety needs a wider context. Who are you to say it doesnt, exactly?

Or perhaps you'd just like to enlighten us why 'I want stuff, why cant I have it' counts as 'music discussion?' Its not about music itself, about making music, or about tools for making music. Its about owning more things.



indeed, its the sense of entitlement that pisses me off.
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Gamma-UT
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2514 posts since 8 Jun, 2009, from UK

Postby Gamma-UT; Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:43 am Re: A rant about orphan works.

I'd really like to see an example of a true orphan work that's available on CD that's only available at marked-up prices, as opposed to a non-orphan work that simply hasn't been reissued since first release.

The idea of anything on CD being an orphan work in the first place is a bit of a stretch, unless it was cut from material already known to be out of copyright (and therefore not really an orphan work in the legal sense).
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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
 
2514 posts since 8 Jun, 2009, from UK

Postby Gamma-UT; Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:44 am Re: A rant about orphan works.

vurt wrote:indeed, its the sense of entitlement that pisses me off.


This as well.
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Numanoid
KVRAF
 
8687 posts since 20 Jan, 2008, from Down on the farm

Postby Numanoid; Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:51 am Re: A rant about orphan works.

vurt wrote:
whyterabbyt wrote:
Numanoid wrote:
vurt wrote:you do realise there are people in the world who cant afford medicine, food or stuff like that and youre moaning about music?

And what's that got to do with KVR? This is a place of music discussion.


Perhaps he thinks 'music discussion' of the 'I should have stuff because I want it' variety needs a wider context. Who are you to say it doesnt, exactly?

Or perhaps you'd just like to enlighten us why 'I want stuff, why cant I have it' counts as 'music discussion?' Its not about music itself, about making music, or about tools for making music. Its about owning more things.

indeed, its the sense of entitlement that pisses me off.

The OP has the right to rant about this subject just as anybody else ranting about something else.

I think however it is quite far fetched playing the "somebody got it worse, how dare you complain" card in this case.
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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
 
21392 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:56 am Re: A rant about orphan works.

Numanoid wrote:The OP has the right to rant about this subject just as anybody else ranting about something else.
I think however it is quite far fetched playing the "somebody got it worse, how dare you complain" card in this case.


So he has the 'right' to 'rant' about not being prepared to pay for the stuff he wants to own, but you're going to jump on someone for pointing out the self-centredness of that in the broader context. Hmm, what a f**ked up little world you must live in.
To laymen, software development is something akin to wizardry. Neither time, nor effort are involved. If software is missing features they want, or has bugs, it is solely because someone has been too lazy to wave their magic wand.
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