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NI Massive is...

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

PatchAdamz
KVRAF
 
1540 posts since 12 Nov, 2012

Postby PatchAdamz; Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:59 am Re: NI Massive is...

The design of Massive makes it very capable of many different types of sounds.
Wavetables, modulation oscillator that can vary the main oscillators, substantial effects, great filters.
Whats not to like....?

It really can do a wide spectrum of sounds and styles.
I find the more I work with it, the better I like it.
3ee
KVRAF
 
2635 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:10 am Re: NI Massive is...

BBFG# , what's KLC?
jsp1979
KVRAF
 
1666 posts since 7 Aug, 2008

Postby jsp1979; Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:14 am Re: NI Massive is...

3ee wrote:BBFG# , what's KLC?


I assume it's the Korg Legacy Collection.
3ee
KVRAF
 
2635 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:16 am Re: NI Massive is...

PatchAdamz wrote:The design of Massive makes it very capable of many different types of sounds.
Wavetables, modulation oscillator that can vary the main oscillators, substantial effects, great filters.
Whats not to like....?


Tricky question you got there! :D

But I do agree that Massive has plenty of things to keep me interested atm.
I really like that within the mod osc you get a wave table FM-like modulation. :tu:

...........
Ow, yeah! thanks jsp1979
Lotuzia
KVRAF
 
7296 posts since 19 Feb, 2004, from Paris

Postby Lotuzia; Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:47 am Re: NI Massive is...

BBFG# wrote:
Sampleconstruct wrote:... but I wouldn't make a soundset for it, after all there are about 23 gazilion trillion Banks out there for Massive.


And 22 gazillion trillion of them are for EDM.
:hihi:


Except ours, wich might the reason why it is sooo popular :shrug:
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Soundbanks for Vsti

77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there [Xils-Lab Team]
Lotuzia
KVRAF
 
7296 posts since 19 Feb, 2004, from Paris

Postby Lotuzia; Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:48 am Re: NI Massive is...

Vectorman wrote:When I picked up Massive many years ago, it wasn't to do warm, furry analog pads and Moogy basses - just like, back in 1984, you wouldn't have picked up a PPG Wave and expected it to stand in for an OB-Xa and a Minimoog. Massive fascinated me because it was a wavetable scanning synth - sort of a PPG on steroids. That's how I approached it and used it. For more analog-like sounds, there are other tools.


This.
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Soundbanks for Vsti

77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there [Xils-Lab Team]
Lotuzia
KVRAF
 
7296 posts since 19 Feb, 2004, from Paris

Postby Lotuzia; Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:56 am Re: NI Massive is...

3ee wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:Massive harsh ? Only if you need it. Actually, it will just *sound* like you want it to sound, smooth as silk, or as harsh, mean and digital as desired. Artefacts there are sometimes, especially when some modulation nodes are used. Just like with acoustic or electric instruments.


Hey Lotuzia, thanks for the examples, sounds cool! :)

OK, about Massive's harshness let's get some things straight.

I wasn't talking about some good "harsh" digital character.
Some synths, like Massive, get a fair amount of use if pushed for bright, aggressive, harmonic-rich timbres... some synths pass that test, some don't... unfortunately Massive is barely passing IMO. I guess it's got to do with the main audio engine or something. None of Massive's distortion algos are very good IMO too. (that's another sign that the overall sound is dated). Unison (if detuned a fair bit) sounds oxidized and blurry - that's a clear sign for every synth that's in need for deep upgrade.

Artefacts? again not referring to good ones either.

Really hoping for Massive 2 this year! :)

---------------------

Yes, as ew pointed out. The best way to understand a synth is by trying to program it. (several times and not just once and dismissing it when something is not "perfect")
In fact, I was pleasantly surprised to hear Massive sounding quite "fat" (nothing to do with unison and stereo detuned wideness :P ) in some situations. Too bad it's not retaining that phatness when needed in a more complex sound. and that's the problem, if pushed (and you sure do wish to push it) Massive sounds harsh in some situations! :cry: .. but the good news is that it can sound good if you get familiar with it and know what to use and what you should avoid (or use in fairly small amounts)

By the end of the day, I think Massive is a good synth like a good amount of good software we use today, we just like to complain by today's standards! :P Interestingly, the more you tend to like something, the more you want to criticize it! :hihi:

PS Massive is not that flexible! Lotuzia used the perfect word to describe it "versatile" (even-though the words are more or less synonyms, I find them specifying different things) In other words... we do get flexibility with some of the feature rich modules but without modulation slots, how can you put the modulators to good use? I mean wtf?! ... (for example) a mod slot for envelope decay? :roll:
I can give you several examples why it's important to have several of them...


Thanks.

A few more sound examples. here are some pads and other things made with Massive. I used the unisson and stereo features a lot, as can be heard, and a lot of RT mods too. My only wish for Massive II would be stereo control at oscillator stage. I could guarantee some uberpads with this feature alone. Else, Massive is great for effects too. Very flexible, and very precise in control.

Sometimes I was short on mod sources for certain parameters. But well same situation with a minimoog or an Arp (actually much worse) , and lots of pure digital synths, including hw ones, that I own. And I cant say my ARP sounds bad. Limitations are ok imho , you cant play a guitar like a saxophone and a sax is mono. Well it adds to the fun, aint it ?

Massive Pads etc
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Soundbanks for Vsti

77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there [Xils-Lab Team]
3ee
KVRAF
 
2635 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:21 am Re: NI Massive is...

^ Thanks again, some great sounds in there! :)

For Massive 2 I would wish for an updated audio engine and a big-a$$ mod matrix (with SC mod for every slot)! Than the current mod slots would be considered quick mod assignments or something.

The workflow for the dedicated mod matrix tab could be in reverse i.e. drag the knob to a mod matrix slot (or simply right-click and show within mod matrix)

Would be also cool if we get an osc (and lfo) wave editor with modes like spectral and wave-draw (maybe a combination of both modes i.e. once drawing a wave, the spectral partials will also adapt than you will have the ability to finetune/edit the wave via spectral partials or vice-verso. )
PatchAdamz
KVRAF
 
1540 posts since 12 Nov, 2012

Postby PatchAdamz; Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:22 am Re: NI Massive is...

3ee wrote:
PatchAdamz wrote:The design of Massive makes it very capable of many different types of sounds.
Wavetables, modulation oscillator that can vary the main oscillators, substantial effects, great filters.
Whats not to like....?


Tricky question you got there! :D

But I do agree that Massive has plenty of things to keep me interested atm.
I really like that within the mod osc you get a wave table FM-like modulation. :tu:

...........
Ow, yeah! thanks jsp1979



Of-course it is always a matter of taste but its interesting that the synth in question is Massive.
I think this has come up before....

My experience when I first got it years ago was (after playing with some stock presets)...MMM, I thought I would like it more...

After working with it and making my own sounds I found it could do what I had originally hoped it could.

Now it is one of my favorite synths for atmospheres.
The modulation, routing and effects are very tweakable, now if they just added some more Wavetables.
Yea, that would do it..... :)
pdxindy
KVRAF
 
8639 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:23 am Re: NI Massive is...

PatchAdamz wrote:Now it is one of my favorite synths for atmospheres.
The modulation, routing and effects are very tweakable, now if they just added some more Wavetables.
Yea, that would do it..... :)


You mean user-created wavetables :wink:
bill45
KVRian
 
1317 posts since 14 Jun, 2006

Postby bill45; Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:25 am Re: NI Massive is...

Lotuzia, Are the sounds in massive pads etc from your commercial sound bank?
BBFG#
KVRAF
 
3175 posts since 28 Apr, 2013

Postby BBFG#; Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:36 am Re: NI Massive is...

jsp1979 wrote:
3ee wrote:BBFG# , what's KLC?


I assume it's the Korg Legacy Collection.


Yes, that's right. I had the old version with the MS-20c and realized I hated mini-keys on anything. Plus it had the dongle and was a 6 month PITA to get reauthorized after a HDD failure. Was lucky enough to sell it for a few hundred before they announced going to their new C/R-A, but figured I wouldn't really use it anymore and put it in my 'once-great-now-dated' category. After buying a Nanopad2 for $40.00 and getting the upgrade offer for $99.00 I bought it 'for the sake of it'. I swear it's better than first set I had (maybe because it's 64b and I have a better computer?), but I tended to forget about even having it. This last month, I've been returning to it and really gaining a new love for it.
Mainly because it blends so well with my Kronos. Mono/Poly really has those great Korg filters and the M1/WS are just close enough to free up the Kronos for other things.
BBFG#
KVRAF
 
3175 posts since 28 Apr, 2013

Postby BBFG#; Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:49 am Re: NI Massive is...

Lotuzia wrote:
BBFG# wrote:
Sampleconstruct wrote:... but I wouldn't make a soundset for it, after all there are about 23 gazilion trillion Banks out there for Massive.

And 22 gazillion trillion of them are for EDM.
:hihi:

Except ours, wich might the reason why it is sooo popular :shrug:


I think you have good sounds, but they sound very EDM to me, so I have yet to buy any of them. The sounds I have from you came with a Camel.
EDM is probably more popular than most genres right now though, depending on the sub-idiom paraphrasing of course. :wink:
User avatar
zerocrossing
KVRAF
 
7096 posts since 26 Jun, 2006, from San Francisco Bay Area

Postby zerocrossing; Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:13 am Re: NI Massive is...

3ee wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:Massive harsh ? Only if you need it. Actually, it will just *sound* like you want it to sound, smooth as silk, or as harsh, mean and digital as desired. Artefacts there are sometimes, especially when some modulation nodes are used. Just like with acoustic or electric instruments.


Hey Lotuzia, thanks for the examples, sounds cool! :)

OK, about Massive's harshness let's get some things straight.

I wasn't talking about some good "harsh" digital character.
Some synths, like Massive, get a fair amount of use if pushed for bright, aggressive, harmonic-rich timbres... some synths pass that test, some don't... unfortunately Massive is barely passing IMO. I guess it's got to do with the main audio engine or something. None of Massive's distortion algos are very good IMO too. (that's another sign that the overall sound is dated). Unison (if detuned a fair bit) sounds oxidized and blurry - that's a clear sign for every synth that's in need for deep upgrade.

Artefacts? again not referring to good ones either.

Really hoping for Massive 2 this year! :)

---------------------

Yes, as ew pointed out. The best way to understand a synth is by trying to program it. (several times and not just once and dismissing it when something is not "perfect")
In fact, I was pleasantly surprised to hear Massive sounding quite "fat" (nothing to do with unison and stereo detuned wideness :P ) in some situations. Too bad it's not retaining that phatness when needed in a more complex sound. and that's the problem, if pushed (and you sure do wish to push it) Massive sounds harsh in some situations! :cry: .. but the good news is that it can sound good if you get familiar with it and know what to use and what you should avoid (or use in fairly small amounts)

By the end of the day, I think Massive is a good synth like a good amount of good software we use today, we just like to complain by today's standards! :P Interestingly, the more you tend to like something, the more you want to criticize it! :hihi:

PS Massive is not that flexible! Lotuzia used the perfect word to describe it "versatile" (even-though the words are more or less synonyms, I find them specifying different things) In other words... we do get flexibility with some of the feature rich modules but without modulation slots, how can you put the modulators to good use? I mean wtf?! ... (for example) a mod slot for envelope decay? :roll:
I can give you several examples why it's important to have several of them...


I totally agree with this post, except sometimes I can actually dig the "ugly" of Massive. When put next to a really rich analog tone, like say something from my Studio Electronics ATC-X it can create an interesting juxtaposition, but I like weird music and I'm just as apt to use Mr. Alias.

But, ultimately, I agree with 3ee and think a new version should address its shortcomings and offer up some better distortion algorithms and overall improve the sound engine. As for it's flexibility... I'm the guy who'll gladly trade flexibility for usability most of the time. You want flexibility? Buy Zebra. Massive is good because it presents a good feature set in a very clear way which makes it fast and fun to use.
Zerocrossing Media
http://www.zerocrossing.net
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
Lotuzia
KVRAF
 
7296 posts since 19 Feb, 2004, from Paris

Postby Lotuzia; Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:56 pm Re: NI Massive is...

bill45 wrote:Lotuzia, Are the sounds in massive pads etc from your commercial sound bank?

Oh yes :)

There are a lot of sound demos on the banks page, some separate instruments ones, some minitracks, well a lot of -hopefully different- things, like in evey soundbank we make.
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Soundbanks for Vsti

77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there [Xils-Lab Team]
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