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Korg MS20 Reissue (and NOT the mini)

Anything about hardware musical instruments.

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aciddose
KVRAF
 
9062 posts since 7 Dec, 2004, from Vancouver, Canada

Postby aciddose; Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:11 am Re: Korg MS20 Reissue (and NOT the mini)

If you do the math, thousands doesn't cut it.

This type of release is subsidized by korg's other existing business.
Cheeso
KVRist
 
483 posts since 15 Apr, 2003, from Alhambra, CA

Postby Cheeso; Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:09 pm Re: Korg MS20 Reissue (and NOT the mini)

Kriminal wrote:
Cheeso wrote:No, it doesn't. The kit is an expensive, limited edition that most people won't get. Hence, the continued need for the mini.


Really...so you know how limited its going to be do you?

Yes.
Kriminal
KVRAF
 
18590 posts since 1 Oct, 2001, from England

Postby Kriminal; Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:57 pm Re: Korg MS20 Reissue (and NOT the mini)

Cheeso wrote:
Kriminal wrote:
Cheeso wrote:No, it doesn't. The kit is an expensive, limited edition that most people won't get. Hence, the continued need for the mini.


Really...so you know how limited its going to be do you?

Yes.


Bullshit
ChiTown24
KVRian
 
757 posts since 8 Jan, 2012

Postby ChiTown24; Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:38 pm Re: Korg MS20 Reissue (and NOT the mini)

i want the extra filter type in the ms20mini enclosure. cos 1/8" patch jacks and euromodular shenanigans. {hz/v - oct/v conversion foibles notwithstanding}.

i hope korg aren't pandering to the 'gotta get em all' mentality. but they probably are.
kritikon
KVRAF
 
5071 posts since 23 May, 2002, from Tutukaka, New Zealand

Postby kritikon; Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:56 am Re: Korg MS20 Reissue (and NOT the mini)

I'm interested though to know more about what you noted was different/preferable about the ms-10 for you. Were you comparing both with the original filter?


I suspect my MS10 was the original filter. TBH I dunno what vintage it was, but the filter although very similar, was a little less raucous but sounded a little more resonant to me.
BUt there were bigger differences - the main 2 being the pulse wave and the bass response.

The pulse wave on the 10 could make some exquisite reedy sounds, as you could thin it right down and still get sound from it. With the 20 it seems to disappear much quicker. Possibly the pots have less fine control or something minor like that, but I can't get the really thin pulses I could with the 10. I vaguely remember the thinned down pulse was the osc I mostly used on the 10.

THe other big sound difference was the bass response, both in terms of the power of it, and that you could play the filter and still get strong bass coming out of it. I know nothing about how filter circuits etc actually work, but I do remember I had a 10 on LPF and I could have quite strong resonance, move the cutoff up quite a large amount yet still have really powerful bass frequencies coming out of it. Possibly it may even have been faulty - I dunno, but my 20 loses bass like most other synths when you move the cutoff up.

THe MS10 was one of the only synths I ever had that I generally had to Eq some bass out to actually get it to sit in a mix OK.
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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
 
21469 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:55 am Re: Korg MS20 Reissue (and NOT the mini)

damoog wrote:Tbh korg make awesome synthesizers,they always have but why not bring in a NEW analogue for this current analogue trend


because when companies bring out new analogue gear, just as many folk complain 'why cant they reissue some of their old stuff' maybe.
To laymen, software development is something akin to wizardry. Neither time, nor effort are involved. If software is missing features they want, or has bugs, it is solely because someone has been too lazy to wave their magic wand.
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vurt
addled muppet weed
 
33749 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass

Postby vurt; Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:05 am Re: Korg MS20 Reissue (and NOT the mini)

whyterabbyt wrote:
damoog wrote:Tbh korg make awesome synthesizers,they always have but why not bring in a NEW analogue for this current analogue trend


because when companies bring out new analogue gear, just as many folk complain 'why cant they reissue some of their old stuff' maybe.


and because they know the ms20 will sell well as its a well loved piece of kit. why shouldnt they make and sell them instead of us having to buy old ones that could need more tlc than playtime.
the fact that some companies are getting back into analogue is good for us all, whether it be new or reissue of classics :)
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aciddose
KVRAF
 
9062 posts since 7 Dec, 2004, from Vancouver, Canada

Postby aciddose; Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:25 am Re: Korg MS20 Reissue (and NOT the mini)

kritikon wrote:... + THe MS10 was one of the only synths I ever had that I generally had to Eq some bass out to actually get it to sit in a mix OK.


Those both sound attributable to the dual filters, plus the fact you may have had the OTA-based newer filter in the ms-20.

The pulse width though may come down to the offset of the njfet buffer used in the oscillator for the ramp waveform. Since it clips off the top of the wave and since the pulse width control goes positive, this can result in the narrow range of the pulse becoming very narrow in terms of rotation of the width control.

It also messes up LFO modulation, making it impossible to get those really wide fast modulations giving that "whizzy/spiraling" sound.

That would be due to the high variability of the gate "on" voltage in njfet transistors which can range from anywhere -10 to -2. With the ms- SCR oscillators I believe the acceptable range is a lot closer to -2, which is hard to come by.

My modified version of this circuit drops the voltage supplied to the oscillator core first, which prevents the clipping even with very significant FET buffer offsets.

The other thing I can think of that might affect the bass is that the highpass is introduced in series with the lowpass in the ms-20, which could affect the amount of bass even with the cutoff set to minimum. That is due to the additional highpass filter capacitors added at two points in the circuit. With a single filter this would be 6db/o, with two you get 12db/o which could make at least a 6db difference to the bass.

Restoring the bass after a highpass filter requires a very low frequency filter and lots of gain. The lowpass with low enough cutoff acts as an integrator, and the gain will bring back the original signal "undoing" the highpass. That is something you aren't likely to find available anywhere standard though, other than maybe an obscure modular module.
V0RT3X
KVRAF
 
4321 posts since 3 Jul, 2012

Postby V0RT3X; Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:38 am Re: Korg MS20 Reissue (and NOT the mini)

I sure hope Korg makes lots of sales here with this, at least enough to encourage them to not make this just a limited edition version.

I like the idea of a mini version but if i could have my way I would easily buy 1 mini and a full sized regular. My reasons for this are because I would like a portable Ms-20 Mini and a full sized one that can talk to other gear using the regular CV cables.
Best Advice I ever got : "Having the best tools and technical knowledge isn't gonna do much for you if you don't understand how to make good music."
ChiTown24
KVRian
 
757 posts since 8 Jan, 2012

Postby ChiTown24; Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:39 am Re: Korg MS20 Reissue (and NOT the mini)

V0RT3X wrote:I like the idea of a mini version but if i could have my way I would easily buy 1 mini and a full sized regular. My reasons for this are because I would like a portable Ms-20 Mini and a full sized one that can talk to other gear using the regular CV cables.


except that arguably 99% of all modern cv/gate items these days are using the 1/8" jacks featured on the mini {see: the rise and rise of euromodular}. So 'regular', these days, is not the 1/4" jacks featured on the MS20diy as far as I'm concerned. though the ms20 isn't 'regular' anyway, with it's hz/v -> oct/v conversion foibles, at least with 1/8" jacks you wouldn't need specialised 1/4" -> 1/8" cables or modifier jacks.

as far as portability goes... I call BS on that. the difference between 86% and 100% isn't enough to make one that much more 'portable' than the other, imo.


anyway, it seems their marketing chicanery has worked a treat on you... buy both and have fun ;)
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