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[BreakTweaker] New Izotope @ NAMM

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion

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Sampleconstruct
KVRAF
 
6576 posts since 12 Oct, 2008, from Here and there

Postby Sampleconstruct; Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:50 am Re: [BreakTweaker] New Izotope @ NAMM

Even with a much lower price tag this would just be another average "drum machine", iZotope's pricing policy doesn't usually bother me and I have many of their splendid products, but this one is just boring.
dayjob
KVRian
 
687 posts since 6 Nov, 2006

Postby dayjob; Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:02 am Re: [BreakTweaker] New Izotope @ NAMM

Sampleconstruct wrote:Even with a much lower price tag this would just be another average "drum machine", iZotope's pricing policy doesn't usually bother me and I have many of their splendid products, but this one is just boring.



pretty much. :neutral:
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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
 
2516 posts since 8 Jun, 2009, from UK

Postby Gamma-UT; Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:06 am Re: [BreakTweaker] New Izotope @ NAMM

I'm torn on this one. I think it's good for trying out ideas thanks to the keyswitches and variable loop rate on each lane (I like the polyrhythm stuff in Tremor for the same reason). The sampler engine allows a reasonable amount of control and helps get away from the classic step-step-buzzity-buzz BT sound with the micro edits. But the way that it locks to the grid is a bit of a problem. I can live without swing but it could do with a Guru/Geist/Nerve-style time-nudge grid.

And, this seems to be an issue for most Izotope sound generators, a decent MIDI modulation matrix would be handy to tune the micro edit and synth controls over time. Izotope seems to favour using fixed envelopes and LFOs which is fine but limits the real-time interaction. Automation seems to be possible. But what I'd really like is to be able to group controls and shift them (a bit like Turnado) with a single control. To be fair, popping this inside an instrument rack and then mapping to the macro knobs gives some of this but these omissions for me make it more a prototyping and experimentation tool.

EDIT: Ooh, you can automate sample start and end by the looks of it. Nice.
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aMUSEd
KVRAF
 
19870 posts since 14 Sep, 2002, from In teh net

Postby aMUSEd; Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:24 am Re: [BreakTweaker] New Izotope @ NAMM

Can you use host automation this time? - the one thing that put me off Stutter Edit was it was not possible to automate using host automation, only midi learn.
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ariston
KVRAF
 
2831 posts since 28 Jun, 2009, from Wherever I lay my hat

Postby ariston; Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:31 am Re: [BreakTweaker] New Izotope @ NAMM

Hm, I'm highly ambivalent about this. On the one hand, I got on with it straight away, and there's a surprising amount of depth to it. It's like a ton of features that were MEANT to be in the same place, thus facilitating certain things that could otherwise take much longer to achieve. I don't know why some call it a drum machine... I'd rather call it a rhythm machine - just load up some other kinds of samples and see what it can do. F.e., I used some vocal samples and made a crazy, rhythmic choir track in no time. And that's the plus side - immediate results, and a high fun factor. The interface is appealing and well-designed as always.

OTOH, I can do all of this with other tools. There are some frustrating limitations - for every "cool", there's a "why didn't they implement this while they were at it?". The price - even the intro price - is too damn high. It's like Stutter Edit - it seems we're paying for the BT tag again here.

Torn between :clap: and :-| .
cron
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2140 posts since 27 Dec, 2002, from London

Postby cron; Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:34 am Re: [BreakTweaker] New Izotope @ NAMM

... featuring BT's patented micro edit technology based on pioneering rhythmic sound design research...


http://patent.ipexl.com/inventor/Brian_Transeau_1.html

With particular reference to: http://patent.ipexl.com/U2S/20090281793ZZDASHZZA1.html

Isn't anybody else concerned by this? We often have discussions around here about how glitch edits are better when done manually. It looks like you'd have no other choice if BT/Izotope get their way.

We all know that Stutter Edit is a marketing term, but attempting to patent the process so competitor's software can't do it? I'm pretty sure that DBlue Glitch and Livecut offered exactly the functionality described prior to 2007, and composers have been doing the rhythmic/pitch crossover effect all the way back to 1957 when Stockhausen published How Time Passes.

Do I just not understand how patents work?
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loungepanda
KVRist
 
90 posts since 27 Apr, 2013

Postby loungepanda; Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:49 am Re: [BreakTweaker] New Izotope @ NAMM

I can see how he (and Izotope) would want to stay competitive, but to me that looks like patent trolling.
Last edited by loungepanda on Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
faun2500
KVRian
 
1283 posts since 27 Nov, 2008, from uk

Postby faun2500; Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:14 am Re: [BreakTweaker] New Izotope @ NAMM

Have to be honest, I was disappointed while trying this. I don't like the colour much and didn't actually like the sound of it. Didn't seem intuitive to use either.

Nevermind.
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aMUSEd
KVRAF
 
19870 posts since 14 Sep, 2002, from In teh net

Postby aMUSEd; Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:18 am Re: [BreakTweaker] New Izotope @ NAMM

cron wrote:
... featuring BT's patented micro edit technology based on pioneering rhythmic sound design research...


http://patent.ipexl.com/inventor/Brian_Transeau_1.html

With particular reference to: http://patent.ipexl.com/U2S/20090281793ZZDASHZZA1.html

Isn't anybody else concerned by this? We often have discussions around here about how glitch edits are better when done manually. It looks like you'd have no other choice if BT/Izotope get their way.

We all know that Stutter Edit is a marketing term, but attempting to patent the process so competitor's software can't do it? I'm pretty sure that DBlue Glitch and Livecut offered exactly the functionality described prior to 2007,


Yeah, not to mention a ton of Reaktor ensembles that go back even further. Reading the patent it's so vague it's meaningless but if it affects innovation it's a bad thing (like most patents of this kind).
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osiris
KVRAF
 
7320 posts since 20 Nov, 2003, from Lost and Spaced

Postby osiris; Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:11 am Re: [BreakTweaker] New Izotope @ NAMM

That patent is the very definition of 'grains', so it's like that game trying to patent the word candy.
I think the reason we're seeing all these drum machine thingys of late is: They're easy to program. And generate wads of cash for the dev's as they are what I'd call 'impulse buys'.
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djanthonyw
KVRAF
 
6703 posts since 20 Jul, 2004, from Boston

Postby djanthonyw; Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:20 am Re: [BreakTweaker] New Izotope @ NAMM

Ok, tried the demo. Can't believe there's no swing option, or even an option drag midi patterns to track to apply swing from the host... iDrum would be a better option as far as I'm concerned.
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Sendy
KVRAF
 
4417 posts since 20 Jul, 2010

Postby Sendy; Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:29 am Re: [BreakTweaker] New Izotope @ NAMM

He patented what?! Well f**k you, BT, there goes my respect for you. It's like if Squarepusher tried to patent manic Amen edits because "he invented them". He's been asked if he's upset about other people being inspired by his glitchy approach to beats, and his response was a good one - why should he be? - since he hasn't actually "invented" anything, any more than Rob Playford or 4hero invented chopping up timestretched breaks (which if anything, was invented by the Akai boffins and abused on the street to create new sounds).

Electronic musicians have been aware of the transition from ryhthm to pitch to timbre, it's plainly obvious to anyone who's messed with any kind of modulation that can go into the audio range. So much f**k!

Wait... hold the phone a second... Isn't Izotope the same crew that came out with "The T-Pain effect" which was basically "The Cher Effect" with "a urban flava"? :dog:
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zerocrossing
KVRAF
 
7176 posts since 26 Jun, 2006, from San Francisco Bay Area

Postby zerocrossing; Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:28 am Re: [BreakTweaker] New Izotope @ NAMM

ariston wrote:Hm, I'm highly ambivalent about this. On the one hand, I got on with it straight away, and there's a surprising amount of depth to it. It's like a ton of features that were MEANT to be in the same place, thus facilitating certain things that could otherwise take much longer to achieve. I don't know why some call it a drum machine... I'd rather call it a rhythm machine - just load up some other kinds of samples and see what it can do. F.e., I used some vocal samples and made a crazy, rhythmic choir track in no time. And that's the plus side - immediate results, and a high fun factor. The interface is appealing and well-designed as always.

OTOH, I can do all of this with other tools. There are some frustrating limitations - for every "cool", there's a "why didn't they implement this while they were at it?". The price - even the intro price - is too damn high. It's like Stutter Edit - it seems we're paying for the BT tag again here.

Torn between :clap: and :-| .


Yeah, that's exactly how I feel as well. I think they'll get a little flurry of sales to the dub-step kiddies, and then it'll die and we'll see it massively discounted or find it in the marketplace used. I think this is a clear example of a $99 plug in trying to get sold for $199. Yeah, I know you can get the basic version on some sites for $165... but somehow I still feel it should be $99.
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Phase47
KVRian
 
868 posts since 21 Aug, 2011

Postby Phase47; Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:02 am Re: [BreakTweaker] New Izotope @ NAMM

Played with this...

Timing seems weird. In Logic, it seems to sync most of the time okay, but doesn't feel exactly 100% solid. In Live, there is a visual delay between what you're hearing and what's happening on the sequencer. I'm not sure if this is the famous Live PDC issue or if it's BreakTweaker. Either way, it's more dodgy in Live. Doable in Logic.

Since the sequencer can't start/stop on its own and follow along a host DAW, I'm surprised that there is no input quantize to trigger the patterns. i.e., you can set the next pattern to start on the quarter-note, or next bar, or whatever. Seems short-sided and that would preclude any kind of using this in a live context.

The GUI. Only seeing 3/4 of the pattern at a time is an absolute workflow killer. If you could scroll over the track where you're working horizontally with the mouse-wheel it would be bearable, but alas, no. I can't explain why they thought this was acceptable. They are going to have to code in an option for "Expanded View" to make this workable.

The sequencer is extremely simple. Both Nerve and Tremor are far more advanced. It gets the job done, though.

Sounds okay. The factory content isn't brilliant, but neither is Iris's and that sounds amazing once you roll your own. The Cinematic expansion seems great. Some of the effects are cool. You can get some nice little beeps out it. Synth section is cool. Overall very easy and intuitive and with some creativity you can get pretty far away from its intended use and/or genre(s). If they fix the sequencer view to include the whole enchilada, it would be a quick and easy way to work. Hopefully they'll at least add a simple reverb/delay like they've got in Iris.

It would seem though, that you would be able to get very nearly the same sounds/effects (and a whole lot more) with a simple drum machine and Stutter Edit.

I generally like Izotope's stuff. This seems like maybe it's a NAMM rush job. The potential is there for something very cool, creative, and perhaps quite deep. As it is, it's a pretty shallow experience and I'd have to agree w/ the one-trick-pony show.

I'm not totally down on it, but it doesn't live up to the hype. If I knew what features they were planning on adding and what they were planning on fixing, I'd be a lot more positive on it.
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Frantz
KVRAF
 
2655 posts since 18 Jul, 2008, from New York

Postby Frantz; Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:45 am Re: [BreakTweaker] New Izotope @ NAMM

Nice NAMM demo here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHwjWfgrNvc

It looks like an instant dubstep machine which is fine by me. The sooner everyone gets sick of this stuff and moves on, the better.
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