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Steinberg: No more VST2 Development

DSP, Plug-in and Host development discussion.

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obiwanjacobi
KVRian
 
507 posts since 18 Jul, 2007, from Netherlands

Postby obiwanjacobi; Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:26 am Re: Steinberg: No more VST2 Development

First rule of distribution: don't do it! :-P
Grtx, Marc Jacobi.
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Urs
u-he
 
17059 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin

Postby Urs; Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:47 am Re: Steinberg: No more VST2 Development

:hihi:
briandc
KVRist
 
255 posts since 25 Jun, 2012, from Italy

Postby briandc; Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:56 am Re: Steinberg: No more VST2 Development

To me, this whole thread is just one more example why endusers have as their only secure option: linux. Open source means exactly that. You can share it. You can change it. You can improve it. With the whole world. And there's lots more developers in the world, than there are in any corporation. ;)

brian
Take control of your PC: use Linux!
amSynth demos on Soundcloud
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SJ_Digriz
KVRAF
 
3005 posts since 4 Jul, 2001, from Prattville, AL

Postby SJ_Digriz; Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:29 am Re: Steinberg: No more VST2 Development

briandc wrote: You can share
crappy, poorly supported, antiquated
code

And because the code sucks
You xxxhave to change it
yourself.
And because the code sucks
You can improve it.
Because no one else will.
I'm not insane. I'm reality challenged.
briandc
KVRist
 
255 posts since 25 Jun, 2012, from Italy

Postby briandc; Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:09 am Re: Steinberg: No more VST2 Development

SJ_Digriz wrote:
briandc wrote: You can share
crappy, poorly supported, antiquated
code

And because the code sucks
You xxxhave to change it
yourself.
And because the code sucks
You can improve it.
Because no one else will.


Well, there are a lot of people who would disagree with you. ZynaddsubFX is considered by many to be one of the best (if not the best) softsynth available.

If people are not interested in getting involved, then things will move along slowly. Windows may be a free-for-all, but that's only as long as you buy their products. Linux is made by the people, for the people. That's why we all need to participate. Sure, not all of us can write code. But participation in whatever way we can, is what makes things better.

It's the sheeple mentality that has to go.


brian
Take control of your PC: use Linux!
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EvilDragon
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9790 posts since 6 Jan, 2009, from Croatia

Postby EvilDragon; Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:33 am Re: Steinberg: No more VST2 Development

briandc wrote:ZynaddsubFX is considered by many to be one of the best (if not the best) softsynth available.


...with the worst GUI/accessibility/usability ever.
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SJ_Digriz
KVRAF
 
3005 posts since 4 Jul, 2001, from Prattville, AL

Postby SJ_Digriz; Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:35 am Re: Steinberg: No more VST2 Development

EvilDragon wrote:
briandc wrote:ZynaddsubFX is considered by many to be one of the best (if not the best) softsynth available.


...with the worst GUI/accessibility/usability ever.

Yeah, but you could fix that yourself .... oh wait, I'm a sheeple, so evidently the fact that I write and support enterprise apps on Linux every day means I know so little about it that I choose to use the inferior Windows because everyone else does.
I'm not insane. I'm reality challenged.
briandc
KVRist
 
255 posts since 25 Jun, 2012, from Italy

Postby briandc; Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:49 am Re: Steinberg: No more VST2 Development

SJ_Digriz wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:
briandc wrote:ZynaddsubFX is considered by many to be one of the best (if not the best) softsynth available.


...with the worst GUI/accessibility/usability ever.

Yeah, but you could fix that yourself .... oh wait, I'm a sheeple, so evidently the fact that I write and support enterprise apps on Linux every day means I know so little about it that I choose to use the inferior Windows because everyone else does.


It doesn't take much to complain. It takes a bit more to contribute and change things for the better. And those who care actually participate. Some even make money doing it, which is great.

Personally speaking, I prefer the freedom of gnu/linux over being dependant on a corporation. There are lots more heads working on linux than on Windows or Mac. To me, that's a BIG plus.


brian
Take control of your PC: use Linux!
amSynth demos on Soundcloud
amSynth.com
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Suloo
KVRian
 
1212 posts since 21 Jan, 2008, from The Outer Rim

Postby Suloo; Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:00 am Re: Steinberg: No more VST2 Development

but there is still no usable plugin format, right?? not too familar with linux, but as i understand one can only use all the nice stuff with a wrapper etc..
Bitwig Scripts: liine Lemur |Cakewalk A-300 Pro ~~ u-he Patches: Zebra - Nano Source
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SJ_Digriz
KVRAF
 
3005 posts since 4 Jul, 2001, from Prattville, AL

Postby SJ_Digriz; Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:01 am Re: Steinberg: No more VST2 Development

briandc wrote:Personally speaking, I prefer the freedom of gnu/linux over being dependant on a corporation.

What freedom? To have a terrible/slow UI? To have dependency crap like it's 1994? To have buggy, barely supported drivers for 10 year old hardware?
There are lots more heads working on linux than on Windows or Mac. To me, that's a BIG plus.

It's not a big plus, because it is absolute bullshit. There are FAAAAAR more people writing Windows/MAC software/hardware/drivers than ever thought of doing it on Linux. FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR more.
I'm not insane. I'm reality challenged.
fese
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421 posts since 14 Sep, 2004, from $HOME

Postby fese; Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:39 am Re: Steinberg: No more VST2 Development

briandc wrote:Personally speaking, I prefer the freedom of gnu/linux over being dependant on a corporation. There are lots more heads working on linux than on Windows or Mac. To me, that's a BIG plus.

OK, so I usually don't get involved in the OS flame wars because I think that an operating system is not a belief system (yes, I am naive that way), but this oversimplifying Linux evangelism still annoys me somehow. Well, I used to be that a bit myself ten or fifteen years ago, Linux=good, microsoft=bad and so on, but after having worked professionally with MacOS (7-9), Windows, Solaris and Linux for fifteen years, I personally think that every OS is massively flawed, usually full of legacy crap and annoyances of different degrees (the exception maybe, but just maybe, ESXi). There is cool stuff there, too :wink:, but this is usually found in the ecosystem around an OS. Good software is good software, crap is crap, open source or not. Software doesn't save the world.

And by the way, Linux is completely dependent on big corporations like IBM, Intel, Google, Redhat and so on who pay the developers. And they do that because they want to earn money with Linux. It's big business. Without that, Linux would be, well, NetBSD.

Gee, when did I grew that cynical???

And wasn't the thread about something completely different?
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SJ_Digriz
KVRAF
 
3005 posts since 4 Jul, 2001, from Prattville, AL

Postby SJ_Digriz; Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:18 pm Re: Steinberg: No more VST2 Development

fese wrote:
briandc wrote:Personally speaking, I prefer the freedom of gnu/linux over being dependant on a corporation. There are lots more heads working on linux than on Windows or Mac. To me, that's a BIG plus.

OK, so I usually don't get involved in the OS flame wars because I think that an operating system is not a belief system (yes, I am naive that way), but this oversimplifying Linux evangelism still annoys me somehow. Well, I used to be that a bit myself ten or fifteen years ago, Linux=good, microsoft=bad and so on, but after having worked professionally with MacOS (7-9), Windows, Solaris and Linux for fifteen years, I personally think that every OS is massively flawed, usually full of legacy crap and annoyances of different degrees (the exception maybe, but just maybe, ESXi). There is cool stuff there, too :wink:, but this is usually found in the ecosystem around an OS. Good software is good software, crap is crap, open source or not. Software doesn't save the world.

And by the way, Linux is completely dependent on big corporations like IBM, Intel, Google, Redhat and so on who pay the developers. And they do that because they want to earn money with Linux. It's big business. Without that, Linux would be, well, NetBSD.

Gee, when did I grew that cynical???

And wasn't the thread about something completely different?

Geez, someone with some actual perspective ... thank you. Now back OT...
I'm not insane. I'm reality challenged.
briandc
KVRist
 
255 posts since 25 Jun, 2012, from Italy

Postby briandc; Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:36 am Re: Steinberg: No more VST2 Development

Suloo wrote:but there is still no usable plugin format, right?? not too familar with linux, but as i understand one can only use all the nice stuff with a wrapper etc..


LV2 and LADSPA work just fine on my machines. The Wine wrapper is simply to port all the stuff made with Windows, an operating system that is not open source, not sharable, and which most people are obliged to buy when they want to buy a PC.

It's not that there aren't nice apps on Windows, or that Windows couldn't be a good OS. It's simply that it's not "by the people, for the people." In the world of washing machines, that might be ok. But in the world of PCs, where they are called "personal" for good reason, that isn't a good scenario.


brian
Take control of your PC: use Linux!
amSynth demos on Soundcloud
amSynth.com
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Urs
u-he
 
17059 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin

Postby Urs; Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:57 am Re: Steinberg: No more VST2 Development

briandc wrote:It's simply that it's not "by the people, for the people."

Well, to be fair, neither are most of the plug-ins that are often requested to be ported to Linux.

We'll instantly start porting our stuff once we're convinced that there's a market. If for instance Bitwig sells some few thousand licenses to Linux users, then we'll follow.

But as it stands now, Linux does not have a reputation as a platform for commercial software. Open source developers / consultants use other ways to monetarize their knowledge, and this may be in contrast to the way that most VST companies have established themselves. I.e. if Linux people expect our stuff to be free when ported to Linux then Linux will be incompatible with the way we do business - because we won't just change our bsuiness for that, and even if we could, we can't transform that to our core business on Mac and PC.
matt42
KVRian
 
612 posts since 9 Jan, 2006

Postby matt42; Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:07 am Re: Steinberg: No more VST2 Development

briandc,

This discussion relates to plugin formats not OSs. There is nothing stopping anyone developing VSTs for linux for example. We get it that you love linux, but again this is not a discussion relating to OSs. If you have an open source plugin format that you would like to suggest to replace VST2 then that at least would be on topic. Good luck getting anyone to agree to that as a standard though.
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