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reaper midi strangeness

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion

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KVRist
 
385 posts since 23 Nov, 2012
  

Postby woggle; Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:58 pm reaper midi strangeness

Image

The two midi files in this image are exactly the same as far as I can tell by looking at them numerically. All that I have done to the original (top) is import it into another program and save it under a different name. Both files play exactly the same, I have not changed in any way anything in Reaper for one file as against the other. As far as I can tell only the representation in the track is different, everything else is exactly the same. But it can't be. Any ideas what Reaper is doing here to make the representations different?
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KVRAF
 
7374 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:10 pm Re: reaper midi strangeness

Simply because the first box is higher, and the second one is less high... If both had the same height, they would be represented identically.
KVRist
 
385 posts since 23 Nov, 2012
  

Postby woggle; Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:18 pm Re: reaper midi strangeness

no, , it's the representation of note lengths that is different. I can put the bottom one to full screen height and it still has the longer notes.
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KVRAF
 
7374 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:28 pm Re: reaper midi strangeness

Maybe because there aren't any automation lines in the second file?
KVRist
 
385 posts since 23 Nov, 2012
  

Postby woggle; Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:37 pm Re: reaper midi strangeness

could be - but what automation would change the representation - the underlying files are exactly the same as far as note length goes
KVRist
 
385 posts since 23 Nov, 2012
  

Postby woggle; Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:40 pm Re: reaper midi strangeness

you are right! thanks - it is hold pedal automation, will investigate the settings (edit: actually it is the damper pedal, Reaper calls it a Hold pedal. Damper makes more sense as having it on damps the note.)

and there is an incredibly clumsy method for copying that data over to the other track.
KVRAF
 
6176 posts since 2 Sep, 2003, from Surrey, UK

Postby DarkStar; Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:25 am Re: reaper midi strangeness

So the "other program" has applied the Hold automation to the notes and modified them?

What would you do in that program if you want to remove / modify the holds?
DarkStar
Interesting, if true ...
KVRist
 
385 posts since 23 Nov, 2012
  

Postby woggle; Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:44 am Re: reaper midi strangeness

the other program is just something i scripted up to manipulate the data - it has not applied the hold data to the notes and lengthened them, it has actually stripped out the controller data. The note lengths are exactly the same as the original, i checked that straight away. Removing the "Hold" data actually causes the notes to be held, as that controller is actually 'Damping' according to the midi spec. No idea why Reaper renames it but I still I should have picked that up earlier anyway.

What Reaper is doing is showing the note lengths after the (Damping) controller information is applied. I was not expecting the representation of note length to be affected by controller information - rookie error
KVRAF
 
6176 posts since 2 Sep, 2003, from Surrey, UK

Postby DarkStar; Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:33 am Re: reaper midi strangeness

Understood
woggle wrote:What Reaper is doing is showing the note lengths after the (Damping) controller information is applied. I was not expecting the representation of note length to be affected by controller information - rookie error

That seems unexpected to me, too.

Perhaps you could upload a short MIDI file? In a simple test here, the notes are not visibly truncated in Reaper. Are those screenshots from Reaper's Arranger? Or ... ?
DarkStar
Interesting, if true ...
KVRist
 
385 posts since 23 Nov, 2012
  

Postby woggle; Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:29 pm Re: reaper midi strangeness

I think to get around this problem in the future I need to somehow or other render the original midi file into a new midi file that has used the controller information - The use of the "Hold" controller CC64 sets all the note lengths in Reaper to 0.96, whereas the removal of that controller info reveals the original note length information. Those original longer lengths are in the actual midi file, you just can't see that in Reaper. There might even be a way to look at the underlying file in Reaper to see those note lengths before they are transformed by the controller info - I haven't found it, but Reaper is filled with functions I haven't found :)

I've never had this problem before and have been manipulating midi data in my little scripts for a long time, so this is hopefully a one off that won't cause any issues in the future.
KVRian
 
1295 posts since 27 Nov, 2008, from uk
   

Postby faun2500; Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:08 pm Re: reaper midi strangeness

There is a lot of strange shit with Reapers midi. If only they would sort it out so it runs perfectly it would be great!
KVRist
 
385 posts since 23 Nov, 2012
  

Postby woggle; Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:02 pm Re: reaper midi strangeness

faun2500 wrote:There is a lot of strange shit with Reapers midi. If only they would sort it out so it runs perfectly it would be great!

to be fair to Reaper I think this problem is more about my misunderstanding of how ti represents things. In my defense, Reaper does have a fairly terrible interface that makes understanding what is going on more difficult than it should be.

My major Reaper problem is that Reaper seems to be getting worse and worse at handling Kontakt. I get a lot of hangs and crashes with Kontakt now that I seldom saw with older versions - and my underlying machine has barely changed. This Kontakt problem has me looking at other hosts.
KVRian
 
1368 posts since 2 Apr, 2006, from Studio City, California
 

Postby C-note; Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:43 pm Re: reaper midi strangeness

Reaper is for Audio
Reaper is made for Audio
Reaper is designed for Audio
Reaper has no Audio editor
Reaper can do basic midi
Reaper is for Audio
KVRian
 
1295 posts since 27 Nov, 2008, from uk
   

Postby faun2500; Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:30 pm Re: reaper midi strangeness

Well I use midi with reaper everyday including using hardware synths and softsynths and while I said there is some strange shit I don't think Reaper is only for audio. lol

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